[Ailist] Waging Peace--re: Persons have a basically positive direction - CarlRogers
MALCOLM ODELL
macodell at verizon.net
Thu Nov 5 20:54:34 MST 2009
As I start packing my bags to head for Kathmandu for the great AI
Conference ahead, I remember clearly hiking through the mountains of
Nepal some years ago and meeting a Gurkha soldier carrying a big tube
over his shoulder that looked like a bazooka or RPG...
When I asked, thinking there may be trouble up the rugged trail ahead
somewhere, he replied:
"Oh, no. This is not a weapon, it's a survey instrument. We're
building a road to connect these villages to the outside world....
Isn't that what Armies like ours should really be doing!?"
Yes, the military has done great stuff in such cases as the Pakistan
Earthquake, the Asian Tsunami, and, my niece included, is really doing
it's darndest to rebuild Afghanistan and bring in the type of
infrastructure our Nepali Gurkha was talking about. Not to mention
the amazing peacekeeping operations that give thousands of soldiers
from around the world a chance to help stabilize nasty situations.
(If only we'd been there in Rwanda....)
Can we all imagine the world's armies all becoming peace keepers...
policing dangerous situations.... while spending their time and
energies between engagements building roads, schools, hospitals.... ??!
Well, Nepal did that... brought about an end to a decade of Maoist
rebellion... peacefully... their Ghurkas are keeping the peace in
dangerous places around the world... and back home they're back to
building roads.
We'll be talking about just these types of questions and issues at the
2009 World Appreciative Inquiry Conference in Kathmandu in just a week
or so.
If you're not already coming, think again... We'll be hosted by
Nepal's Minister of Peace... think about that... Do we have a
'Secretary of Peace' in the US>>>??
Join Us!! <http://www.2009worldaiconference.org/home/>
Peace!
Mac Odell
On Nov 6, 2009, at 6:24 AM, Michael L Schwartz wrote:
> Roger;
>
>
>
> Point of clarification: Military are trained to follow orders
> whether they
> believe in the orders or not.as long as the orders are lawful. Their
> training includes doing what is best to carry out those orders. If
> their
> orders are to, for instance, provide relief to civilian populations
> then
> they will do that even if that population is in opposition to them.
> By that
> very act these military persons are doing what is best for the
> whole, not
> just for themselves. They will put themselves "in harm's way" for
> people who
> oppose them if that is what they are ordered to do. If those orders
> include
> building infrastructure; hospitals, schools, roads, etc; then they
> will do
> that. I personally know military people whose missions were to help
> set-up
> civilian governments, not to engage in military actions.
>
>
>
> Michael L Schwartz, PE, PMP
>
> President
>
> Positive Concepts, Inc.
>
> Office: 248 828 7701
>
> Fax: 248 828 7708
>
> Cell: 248 318 6070
>
> Email: MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz
>
> Web: www.PositiveConcepts.biz <http://www.positiveconcepts.biz/>
>
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaellschwartz
>
>
>
> Enhancing the positive.
>
>
>
> From: Roger Davies [mailto:rdavies at rtpcompany.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:08 AM
> To: 'Michael L Schwartz'; 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu
> ;
> mail at sachinchavan.com
> Subject: RE: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positive direction -
> CarlRogers
>
>
>
> Hi Michael,
>
>
>
> Another point of view might be that the military are trained to do
> what is
> best for everyone who happens to share their point of view. By
> definition
> they do not act in the best interests of those they are in
> opposition to.
> Nor do they act to seek alternative solutions other than a military
> one to
> the conflict in which they are engaged.
>
>
>
> On the matter of being trained to act for the good of others what
> about
> those in the church who are also trained to do what is better for
> everyone,
> or those in healthcare who dedicate themselves to healing others, or
> maybe
> those in education who also dedicate themselves to sharing their
> knowledge
> for the benefit of others.
>
>
>
>> From another perspective only two sectors of the economy actually
>> take a raw
> material and turn it into something more valuable thereby generating
> 'actual' economic growth. Those are the sectors of agriculture and
> manufacturing. Maybe service in those areas should be a pre-
> condition since
> it is only those two sectors that pay for everyone else.
>
>
>
> Maybe the only pre-condition is that you are subject to the laws and
> conditions of the society in which you live. Personally I am a
> permanent
> resident in the US and though subject to all the laws and
> regulations etc of
> the society I am not permitted to vote in a US election. Should that
> be
> permitted? I could vote in elections in my native country but since
> I'm not
> subject to the laws and regulations that seems a little unfair and
> would be
> purely politically motivated so I choose not to.
>
>
>
> A broad range of views makes for healthy government. One only has to
> look at
> those that are either heavily militarized, religiously biased or for
> that
> matter politically highly polarized to uncover that. It's a long
> time since
> I have read up on this but I believe that to serve in government in
> ancient
> Greece one had to give up ownership and involvement in the private
> sector.
> Now that would be a step forward. Imagine if the only income a
> politician
> could have was that given to them by their constituents. Who's
> interests
> would they then act to best to serve? How much power would a
> lobbyist have?
>
>
>
> I believe that on an individual level it is more a question of
> motivation
> rather than one of training and of course whether or not one has a
> collaborative and generative persuasion for problem solving or
> something
> different.
>
>
>
> Roger
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Michael L Schwartz [mailto:MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz]
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 2:05 PM
> To: 'Roger Davies'; 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu;
> mail at sachinchavan.com
> Subject: RE: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positive direction -
> CarlRogers
>
> Roger;
>
>
>
> Your comment about "... the temptation for one to make a morally
> incorrect
> choice for the benefit of individual gain..." brought to mind
> something in
> Robert Heinlein's novel Starship Troopers. (Not to be confused with
> the
> movie of the same name, only loosely based on the book.) The novel
> mentions
> that to be a "citizen" and to have the privilege of voting one must
> have
> served in the military. The reason being that being in the military
> trains
> one to do what is best for everyone, not just for self. Now, I don't
> necessarily advocate military service as a requirement for voting,
> but it is
> an interesting concept. What about such a requirement for our elected
> government representatives? Especially those that have "command
> authority"
> over military units.
>
>
>
> Michael L Schwartz, PE, PMP
>
> President
>
> Positive Concepts, Inc.
>
> Office: 248 828 7701
>
> Fax: 248 828 7708
>
> Cell: 248 318 6070
>
> Email: MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz
>
> Web: www.PositiveConcepts.biz
>
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaellschwartz
>
>
>
> Enhancing the positive.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu
> [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Roger
> Davies
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:22 AM
> To: 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com
> Subject: Re: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positive direction -
> CarlRogers
>
>
>
> Hi Lionel,
>
>
>
> Maybe a little 'off topic' but after 15 years of management in
> industry I
>
> have a very strong feeling about incentives. They are a bad idea and
>
> insidiously undermine employee commitment and alignment. Why?
> Because they
>
> provide the temptation for one to make a morally incorrect choice
> for the
>
> benefit of individual gain (or realize individual gain from a choice
> they
>
> should have made anyway such as an 'attendance bonus').
>
>
>
> There is a difference between incentive and reward. Rewards are good
> because
>
> they come after the act attracting them has been performed and the
> person
>
> receiving them was not aware that they would get a reward for acting
> the way
>
> that they did. Of course in all cases one must be consistent in their
>
> application.
>
>
>
> Ai is the perfect tool to generate alignment within an organization
> because
>
> alignment stems from compassion. If all members of the organization
> care
>
> about the work that they do and the well being of each other their
>
> performance, in any way that one cares to measure it, is exemplary.
> I have
>
> had the benefit of experiencing this and also the unfortunate of
> experience
>
> of seeing it significantly diminished by the application of the 'one
> size
>
> fits all' standardization so prevalent in public corporations.
>
>
>
> What baffles me is that those very organizations that spend
> extraordinary
>
> efforts on limiting individuality also desire innovation and wonder
> why it's
>
> so difficult to realize from their employees. Innovation requires
> freedom to
>
> think and act outside of the norm.
>
>
>
> Roger
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu
>
> [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Lionel
> Boxer
>
> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 11:48 PM
>
> To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com
>
> Subject: Re: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positive direction -
>
> CarlRogers
>
>
>
> Yes. But what are they positive about and is their personal direction
>
> aligned with the organisation? That alignment is the issue. People
> are
>
> positive about their personal goals. So, incentives offered to
> employees by
>
> an organisation need to be crafted with that in mind as well as an
>
> employee's ability to manipulate the incentive system to reward
> themself and
>
> potentially harm the organisation or even break laws.
>
>
>
> Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT
>
> University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my
>
> "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory"
>
> now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net
>
>>>> "Sachin Chavan" <mail at sachinchavan.com> 27/10/09 1:40 AM >>>
>
> In the background of the latest discussion on positive thinking,
> financial
>
> crisis etc, here's a passage from Carl Rogers' 'On Becoming a Person':
>
>
>
> 'There is one deep learning which is perhaps basic to all of the
> things I
>
> have said thus far. It has been forced upon me by more than twenty-
> five
>
> years of trying to be helpful to individuals in personal stress. It is
>
> simply this. It has been my experience that persons have a basically
>
> positive direction. In my deepest contact with individuals in
> therapy, even
>
> those whose troubles are most disturbing, whose behaviour has been
> most
>
> anti-social, whose feelings seem most abnormal, I find this to e
> true. When
>
> I can sensitively understand the feelings which they are expressing,
> when I
>
> am able to accept them as separate persons in their own right, then
> I find
>
> that they tend to move in certain directions. And what are these
> directions
>
> in which they tend to move? The words which I believe are most truly
>
> descriptive, are words such as positive, constructive, moving toward
>
> self-actualisation, growing toward maturity, growing toward
> socialisation, I
>
> have come to feel that the more fully the individual is understood and
>
> accepted, the more he tends to drop the false fronts with which he
> has been
>
> meeting life, and the more he tends to move in a direction which is
> forward.
>
>
>
> I would not want to be misunderstood on this. I do not have a
> Pollyanna view
>
> of human nature. I am quite aware that out of defensiveness and
> inner far
>
> individuals can do behave in ways which are incredibly cruel, horribly
>
> destructive, immature, regressive, anti-social, hurtful. Yet one of
> the most
>
> refreshing and invigorating parts of my experience is to work with
> such
>
> individuals and to discover the strongly positive directional
> tendencies
>
> which exist in them, as in all of us, at the deepest levels.'
>
>
>
> Chapter 1 "This is me". 'On Becoming a Person" - Carl Rogers, 1961.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Sachin
>
>
>
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>
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>
> The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles
>
> School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the
> list
>
> administrator. For subscription information, go to:
>
> http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles
> School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the
> list
> administrator. For subscription information, go to:
>
> http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David
> Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain
> is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to:
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