From wjs.consulting at shaw.ca Sun Nov 1 06:25:56 2009 From: wjs.consulting at shaw.ca (Bill Scott) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 05:25:56 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] AI, Competition, and Collaboration Message-ID: <010101ca5af6$d8625ca0$892715e0$@consulting@shaw.ca> Hi Simon, I saw your post and it indeed is a provocative one. I'm certain I'm not going to stay on point and I believe others will provide you with the specific feedback that you are seeking. The student raises some interesting and important points and he makes the mistake that many do when considering generative change methods - he assumes (with apologies to Gervase Bushe) that an appreciative approach is just about the positive. A more thorough read of Jackie's work clearly demonstrates that a SOAR analysis isn't about ignoring weaknesses and threats, it's about reframing them so that you understand what you want to move toward rather than what you wish to avoid. I think the student's last remark is possibly the most telling. I think it points to his/her bias (and perhaps dependency?) toward traditional thinking/teaching. Jackie's SOAR model is receiving strong reviews from a variety of private sector companies, government departments, and social profit organizations that have used the model with great success. On a separate note, many people still view the competitive model as essential to optimal business practice. I'm not convinced. Numerous authors - including those not associated with AI - have independently concluded that collaborative practice is often (though not always) superior to competitive practice. One non-AI author I would direct you toward in this regard is an OB professor I studied with 15 years ago - Dean Tjosvold. Thanks for the opportunity to respond. Best regards, Bill Scott Surrey, B.C. bill at elpisconsulting.com www.elpisconsulting.com 604-574-1856 cid:image001.png at 01CA5A2E.BC3C8A00 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 3106 bytes Desc: not available URL: From are_see at hotmail.com Sun Nov 1 08:11:52 2009 From: are_see at hotmail.com (are see) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 20:41:52 +0530 Subject: [Ailist] 2009 World AI Coference Visual Broadcasting From ABBC TV Message-ID: Dear All, Please Find an attached VIDEO Record of 2009 World AI COnference. It is being Airing By ABC TV 3 in a day. Hopefully you will enjoy wiht this ----------------------------------------------------- Ram Chandra (RC) Lamichhane, M.Rd., LLB. B.Ed. (The Appreciative Inquiry Certification for positive Business and social Change CWRU, USA) (Ph.D. Scholar - Appreciative Inquiry Approach for Enabling Sustainable Peace and Inclusive Community Development in Nepal) Conference Coordinator - 2009 World AI Conference www.2009worldaiconference.org General Secretary - Imagine Nepal _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/see-it-in-action/social-network-basics.aspx?ocid=PID23461::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-xm:SI_SB_1:092010 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AI Conference 2009.wmv Type: video/x-ms-wmv Size: 854599 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kate at startconsulting.com Sun Nov 1 09:00:41 2009 From: kate at startconsulting.com (Kate Start) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 16:00:41 -0000 Subject: [Ailist] healthy eating strategies Message-ID: Dear Ai-ers, does any one know, or has been involved in, a successful healthy weight strategy where whole communites, towns etc have been involved? Many thanks Kate London England From martiroach at sbcglobal.net Sun Nov 1 12:33:49 2009 From: martiroach at sbcglobal.net (Marti Roach) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 11:33:49 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] healthy eating strategies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <94BF9B871B074469848BED0693CA9A8F@D32K5JC1> Dear Kate There is a lot of focus in the States on addressing obesity through public health and community development strategies. These include efforts at policy change (e.g. making safer, more walkable communities; policies on healthy school lunches and getting soda machines out of schools). Other efforts focus on community organizing and fostering programs that support individual awareness and change. The prevention Institute in Oakland, CA has a number of initiatives that are foundation funded in this arena of action. The US Center for Disease Control also funds multi-million dollar projects targeting high need communities where there are clear health inequities or high obesity /chronic disease related to obesity rates. -Marti ***************************************** Marti Roach, MSW Certified ToP Facilitator Facilitation - Strategic Planning - Grant Writing PH: 925.376.3853 FAX: 925.376.6827 ***************************************** -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Kate Start Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 8:01 AM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: [Ailist] healthy eating strategies Dear Ai-ers, does any one know, or has been involved in, a successful healthy weight strategy where whole communites, towns etc have been involved? Many thanks Kate London England _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From leif.josefsson at gmail.com Sun Nov 1 16:16:14 2009 From: leif.josefsson at gmail.com (Leif Josefsson) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 00:16:14 +0100 Subject: [Ailist] AI, Competition, and Collaboration In-Reply-To: <-8804326870224834772@unknownmsgid> References: <-8804326870224834772@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <782e6c870911011516q7fd839dcm5c4a91e52b7c7e78@mail.gmail.com> This is an interesting conversation. Cooperation, or maybe "Co-inspiration" in contrast to competition. It is easy to elaborate around the theoretical ideas of Collaboration vs Competition But how is it in the community when it comes to action, and to the relationships between companies and individuals? How rooted are the metaphors of "War" in our way of thinking? Do we dare to share ideas, concepts etc or do we fear that someone will steal the customer, idea, concept etc.? If the underlying image is "war" then we think in win/lose - zero sum game etc. If the underlying image is "play" then the mind will think about growth, sharing, etc Let's say there is a network meeting. Do I consider bringing customers there, or am I afraid of someone else approaching them? How do you create plans and strategies that are based on Co-inspiration/Collaboration rather the Competition? What are the differences in views with an American/European/African/Asian/... other approach? What are the differences in the way you act, taking the ideas of AI really seriously? Have a good week! /Leif On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Bill Scott wrote: > Hi Simon, > > > > I saw your post and it indeed is a provocative one. I'm certain I'm not > going to stay on point and I believe others will provide you with the > specific feedback that you are seeking. > > > > The student raises some interesting and important points and he makes the > mistake that many do when considering generative change methods - he > assumes > (with apologies to Gervase Bushe) that an appreciative approach is just > about the positive. A more thorough read of Jackie's work clearly > demonstrates that a SOAR analysis isn't about ignoring weaknesses and > threats, it's about reframing them so that you understand what you want to > move toward rather than what you wish to avoid. > > > > I think the student's last remark is possibly the most telling. I think it > points to his/her bias (and perhaps dependency?) toward traditional > thinking/teaching. Jackie's SOAR model is receiving strong reviews from a > variety of private sector companies, government departments, and social > profit organizations that have used the model with great success. > > > > On a separate note, many people still view the competitive model as > essential to optimal business practice. I'm not convinced. Numerous authors > - including those not associated with AI - have independently concluded > that > collaborative practice is often (though not always) superior to competitive > practice. One non-AI author I would direct you toward in this regard is an > OB professor I studied with 15 years ago - Dean Tjosvold. > > > > Thanks for the opportunity to respond. > > > > Best regards, > > Bill Scott > > > > Surrey, B.C. > > bill at elpisconsulting.com > > www.elpisconsulting.com > > 604-574-1856 > > > > cid:image001.png at 01CA5A2E.BC3C8A00 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles > School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list > administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist > -- ps. Jag ?ker till Gotland den 20 november. Hemv?ndardagar. Alla kan hitta hem. F?ljer du med? www.hemvandardagar.se Leif Josefsson F?renklare / Facilitator LeanderLeander AB ?landsgatan 48 - 116 63 Stockholm - tel +46 70-773 00 54 www.leanderleander.com follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/ljosefss Send me a message: http://twitter.com/direct_messages/create/ljosefss From jstavros at comcast.net Mon Nov 2 05:36:51 2009 From: jstavros at comcast.net (Jackie Stavros) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 07:36:51 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] AI, Competition, and Collaboration In-Reply-To: <782e6c870911011516q7fd839dcm5c4a91e52b7c7e78@mail.gmail.com> References: <-8804326870224834772@unknownmsgid> <782e6c870911011516q7fd839dcm5c4a91e52b7c7e78@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002601ca5bb9$28745370$795cfa50$@net> Thank you for the conversation thread and your insights about competition and/or cooperation. I really like the co-inspiration thinking (Leif) that it can be a "both/and" conversation. Back in the late 1990s when we were working on the SOAR framework, it was David Cooperrider who suggested to Lynn Kelley and I the idea of competitors collaborating to build industries and their own organizations. And, it was Marge Schiller who always taught me the "both/and" conversation versus the "either/or" conversation when it comes to addressing an issue, solution, etc ... Our collaborative conversations certainly lead to co-inspiration as we move forward with our work. I just wanted to share (see attachments) - a few files from when the Thin Book of SOAR was launched that helps to connect to this conversation because at first I saw the dialogue as SWOT versus SOAR or SWOT or SOAR but what I've learned is that SOAR builds off of the "SO" of SWOT (through my lens it is the strengths of SWOT) and moves the conversation in a reframing direction of creating the most preferred futures (aspirations) with results. Appreciate the opportunity to share and that we have choices on how to move forward - Jackie P.S. - Please let me know if I can send you some other separate book chapters written in the last year. -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Leif Josefsson Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 6:16 PM To: Bill Scott Cc: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: Re: [Ailist] AI, Competition, and Collaboration This is an interesting conversation. Cooperation, or maybe "Co-inspiration" in contrast to competition. It is easy to elaborate around the theoretical ideas of Collaboration vs Competition But how is it in the community when it comes to action, and to the relationships between companies and individuals? How rooted are the metaphors of "War" in our way of thinking? Do we dare to share ideas, concepts etc or do we fear that someone will steal the customer, idea, concept etc.? If the underlying image is "war" then we think in win/lose - zero sum game etc. If the underlying image is "play" then the mind will think about growth, sharing, etc Let's say there is a network meeting. Do I consider bringing customers there, or am I afraid of someone else approaching them? How do you create plans and strategies that are based on Co-inspiration/Collaboration rather the Competition? What are the differences in views with an American/European/African/Asian/... other approach? What are the differences in the way you act, taking the ideas of AI really seriously? Have a good week! /Leif On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Bill Scott wrote: > Hi Simon, > > > > I saw your post and it indeed is a provocative one. I'm certain I'm not > going to stay on point and I believe others will provide you with the > specific feedback that you are seeking. > > > > The student raises some interesting and important points and he makes the > mistake that many do when considering generative change methods - he > assumes > (with apologies to Gervase Bushe) that an appreciative approach is just > about the positive. A more thorough read of Jackie's work clearly > demonstrates that a SOAR analysis isn't about ignoring weaknesses and > threats, it's about reframing them so that you understand what you want to > move toward rather than what you wish to avoid. > > > > I think the student's last remark is possibly the most telling. I think it > points to his/her bias (and perhaps dependency?) toward traditional > thinking/teaching. Jackie's SOAR model is receiving strong reviews from a > variety of private sector companies, government departments, and social > profit organizations that have used the model with great success. > > > > On a separate note, many people still view the competitive model as > essential to optimal business practice. I'm not convinced. Numerous authors > - including those not associated with AI - have independently concluded > that > collaborative practice is often (though not always) superior to competitive > practice. One non-AI author I would direct you toward in this regard is an > OB professor I studied with 15 years ago - Dean Tjosvold. > > > > Thanks for the opportunity to respond. > > > > Best regards, > > Bill Scott > > > > Surrey, B.C. > > bill at elpisconsulting.com > > www.elpisconsulting.com > > 604-574-1856 > > > > cid:image001.png at 01CA5A2E.BC3C8A00 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles > School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list > administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist > -- ps. Jag ?ker till Gotland den 20 november. Hemv?ndardagar. Alla kan hitta hem. F?ljer du med? www.hemvandardagar.se Leif Josefsson F?renklare / Facilitator LeanderLeander AB ?landsgatan 48 - 116 63 Stockholm - tel +46 70-773 00 54 www.leanderleander.com follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/ljosefss Send me a message: http://twitter.com/direct_messages/create/ljosefss _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ThinZineSOARAnnouncement.doc Type: application/msword Size: 57344 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: thinzineCaseStudyJuly2009.doc Type: application/msword Size: 185344 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Jackie answers questions about SOAR.doc Type: application/msword Size: 39424 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rdavies at rtpcompany.com Mon Nov 2 07:07:30 2009 From: rdavies at rtpcompany.com (Roger Davies) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 08:07:30 -0600 Subject: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positive direction - CarlRogers In-Reply-To: <008101ca5993$e0f5a520$a2e0ef60$@biz> References: <4AE71615020000AF0003A9BC@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> <41C6B1C6BF7B4A3AB18ED254BFFBCCCD@winona.rtpco.local> <008101ca5993$e0f5a520$a2e0ef60$@biz> Message-ID: Hi Michael, Another point of view might be that the military are trained to do what is best for everyone who happens to share their point of view. By definition they do not act in the best interests of those they are in opposition to. Nor do they act to seek alternative solutions other than a military one to the conflict in which they are engaged. On the matter of being trained to act for the good of others what about those in the church who are also trained to do what is better for everyone, or those in healthcare who dedicate themselves to healing others, or maybe those in education who also dedicate themselves to sharing their knowledge for the benefit of others. >From another perspective only two sectors of the economy actually take a raw material and turn it into something more valuable thereby generating 'actual' economic growth. Those are the sectors of agriculture and manufacturing. Maybe service in those areas should be a pre-condition since it is only those two sectors that pay for everyone else. Maybe the only pre-condition is that you are subject to the laws and conditions of the society in which you live. Personally I am a permanent resident in the US and though subject to all the laws and regulations etc of the society I am not permitted to vote in a US election. Should that be permitted? I could vote in elections in my native country but since I'm not subject to the laws and regulations that seems a little unfair and would be purely politically motivated so I choose not to. A broad range of views makes for healthy government. One only has to look at those that are either heavily militarized, religiously biased or for that matter politically highly polarized to uncover that. It's a long time since I have read up on this but I believe that to serve in government in ancient Greece one had to give up ownership and involvement in the private sector. Now that would be a step forward. Imagine if the only income a politician could have was that given to them by their constituents. Who's interests would they then act to best to serve? How much power would a lobbyist have? I believe that on an individual level it is more a question of motivation rather than one of training and of course whether or not one has a collaborative and generative persuasion for problem solving or something different. Roger _____ From: Michael L Schwartz [mailto:MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz] Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 2:05 PM To: 'Roger Davies'; 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: RE: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positive direction - CarlRogers Roger; Your comment about "... the temptation for one to make a morally incorrect choice for the benefit of individual gain..." brought to mind something in Robert Heinlein's novel Starship Troopers. (Not to be confused with the movie of the same name, only loosely based on the book.) The novel mentions that to be a "citizen" and to have the privilege of voting one must have served in the military. The reason being that being in the military trains one to do what is best for everyone, not just for self. Now, I don't necessarily advocate military service as a requirement for voting, but it is an interesting concept. What about such a requirement for our elected government representatives? Especially those that have "command authority" over military units. Michael L Schwartz, PE, PMP President Positive Concepts, Inc. Office: 248 828 7701 Fax: 248 828 7708 Cell: 248 318 6070 Email: MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz Web: www.PositiveConcepts.biz LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaellschwartz Enhancing the positive. -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Roger Davies Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:22 AM To: 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positive direction - CarlRogers Hi Lionel, Maybe a little 'off topic' but after 15 years of management in industry I have a very strong feeling about incentives. They are a bad idea and insidiously undermine employee commitment and alignment. Why? Because they provide the temptation for one to make a morally incorrect choice for the benefit of individual gain (or realize individual gain from a choice they should have made anyway such as an 'attendance bonus'). There is a difference between incentive and reward. Rewards are good because they come after the act attracting them has been performed and the person receiving them was not aware that they would get a reward for acting the way that they did. Of course in all cases one must be consistent in their application. Ai is the perfect tool to generate alignment within an organization because alignment stems from compassion. If all members of the organization care about the work that they do and the well being of each other their performance, in any way that one cares to measure it, is exemplary. I have had the benefit of experiencing this and also the unfortunate of experience of seeing it significantly diminished by the application of the 'one size fits all' standardization so prevalent in public corporations. What baffles me is that those very organizations that spend extraordinary efforts on limiting individuality also desire innovation and wonder why it's so difficult to realize from their employees. Innovation requires freedom to think and act outside of the norm. Roger -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 11:48 PM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positive direction - CarlRogers Yes. But what are they positive about and is their personal direction aligned with the organisation? That alignment is the issue. People are positive about their personal goals. So, incentives offered to employees by an organisation need to be crafted with that in mind as well as an employee's ability to manipulate the incentive system to reward themself and potentially harm the organisation or even break laws. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> "Sachin Chavan" 27/10/09 1:40 AM >>> In the background of the latest discussion on positive thinking, financial crisis etc, here's a passage from Carl Rogers' 'On Becoming a Person': 'There is one deep learning which is perhaps basic to all of the things I have said thus far. It has been forced upon me by more than twenty-five years of trying to be helpful to individuals in personal stress. It is simply this. It has been my experience that persons have a basically positive direction. In my deepest contact with individuals in therapy, even those whose troubles are most disturbing, whose behaviour has been most anti-social, whose feelings seem most abnormal, I find this to e true. When I can sensitively understand the feelings which they are expressing, when I am able to accept them as separate persons in their own right, then I find that they tend to move in certain directions. And what are these directions in which they tend to move? The words which I believe are most truly descriptive, are words such as positive, constructive, moving toward self-actualisation, growing toward maturity, growing toward socialisation, I have come to feel that the more fully the individual is understood and accepted, the more he tends to drop the false fronts with which he has been meeting life, and the more he tends to move in a direction which is forward. I would not want to be misunderstood on this. I do not have a Pollyanna view of human nature. I am quite aware that out of defensiveness and inner far individuals can do behave in ways which are incredibly cruel, horribly destructive, immature, regressive, anti-social, hurtful. Yet one of the most refreshing and invigorating parts of my experience is to work with such individuals and to discover the strongly positive directional tendencies which exist in them, as in all of us, at the deepest levels.' Chapter 1 "This is me". 'On Becoming a Person" - Carl Rogers, 1961. Regards Sachin _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From jalight at earthlink.net Mon Nov 2 09:08:10 2009 From: jalight at earthlink.net (Judith Light) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 09:08:10 -0700 Subject: [Ailist] healthy eating strategies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <898E400612A34B259FC0C9006D787F28@judithd1492332> Hello Kate I am working with the state of Missouri/Federal govt on health care issues. I turned up this announcement. I recommend the website www.rwjf.org (Robert Wood Johnson Foundation) for more information on other programs. I'll keep you in mind as I continue research. Regards, Judith Judith Light CMC FIMC 719-475-0469 * CMCR (Certified Management Consultant) is the certification mark awarded by the Institute of Management Consultants USA and represents meeting the highest global standards and ethical canons of the profession. Less than 1% of all consultants have achieved this level of excellence. See Why hire a CMC? Ten Outstanding Leaders Honored for Improving Health and Health Care in Hard-to-Reach Communities The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation announces winners of the 2009 Community Health Leaders Award. October 08, 2009Princeton, N.J. 6. Rajiv Kumar, chairman and co-founder, Shape Up RI, Providence, R.I. Kumar is being honored for his efforts to establish and execute a team-based program for Rhode Island residents to address obesity challenges and improve their health through exercise and healthy eating. Shape Up RI is a statewide exercise and weight loss challenge founded on the belief that the solution to healthy living lies in the power of teamwork and peer support. Over the past four years, nearly 35,000 Rhode Islanders have participated in the program. Kumar is also a student at Brown University's Medical School. Judith -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Kate Start Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 9:01 AM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: [Ailist] healthy eating strategies Dear Ai-ers, does any one know, or has been involved in, a successful healthy weight strategy where whole communites, towns etc have been involved? Many thanks Kate London England _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From rdavies at rtpcompany.com Mon Nov 2 12:42:29 2009 From: rdavies at rtpcompany.com (Roger Davies) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 13:42:29 -0600 Subject: [Ailist] AI, Competition, and Collaboration In-Reply-To: <002601ca5bb9$28745370$795cfa50$@net> References: <-8804326870224834772@unknownmsgid><782e6c870911011516q7fd839dcm5c4a91e52b7c7e78@mail.gmail.com> <002601ca5bb9$28745370$795cfa50$@net> Message-ID: <680CC9E5B56B4DC1B62C1ECA3C6B722A@winona.rtpco.local> One of my first introductions to collaborative decision making involved the need to understand what was actually being decided upon and a brief introduction to finite and infinite 'games'. When one thinks about any group of organizations engaged in competition their real aim is not to eliminate their competitors. After all without any competitors there would be no competition. The actual purpose of being a chemical company for instance is to get people to buy more chemicals. In that respect all chemical companies are involved in the same 'game' which, for their own benefit, they MUST play in an infinite fashion. The same is true of a football league. Even though every match is a finite game the infinite game that provides the context in which they are played is 'get more people to watch football'. In fact the 'both/and' might also be considered to be a 'get more x to y' in a competitive sense. Such organizations don't necessarily collaborate in the traditional sense but they all do in a progressive and competitive sense. The better the product the more business grows. If they were not playing their game infinitely they would not be in existence. We might therefore consider that in the course of doing business there are generative competitive practices that prolong the 'game'infinitely (e.g. innovation, training), degenerative practices that unchecked would finitely end the game (e.g. price wars) and neutral practices (e.g. purely defending one's position without trying to improve it). There is an obvious benefit to focusing on generative practices. I first ran across 'both/and' within TRIZ which also contains the interesting proposition that all things move toward a point of 'ideality' which is defined as 'all of the benefit for none of the harm'. Harm being any or a combination of cost, environmental damage, additional work etc. In itself ideality is based upon what the function of something is rather than the necessary action required to achieve it. That's why we don't have many typewriters or Vinyl LP's any more. Roger -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Jackie Stavros Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 6:37 AM To: 'Leif Josefsson'; 'Bill Scott' Cc: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: Re: [Ailist] AI, Competition, and Collaboration Thank you for the conversation thread and your insights about competition and/or cooperation. I really like the co-inspiration thinking (Leif) that it can be a "both/and" conversation. Back in the late 1990s when we were working on the SOAR framework, it was David Cooperrider who suggested to Lynn Kelley and I the idea of competitors collaborating to build industries and their own organizations. And, it was Marge Schiller who always taught me the "both/and" conversation versus the "either/or" conversation when it comes to addressing an issue, solution, etc ... Our collaborative conversations certainly lead to co-inspiration as we move forward with our work. I just wanted to share (see attachments) - a few files from when the Thin Book of SOAR was launched that helps to connect to this conversation because at first I saw the dialogue as SWOT versus SOAR or SWOT or SOAR but what I've learned is that SOAR builds off of the "SO" of SWOT (through my lens it is the strengths of SWOT) and moves the conversation in a reframing direction of creating the most preferred futures (aspirations) with results. Appreciate the opportunity to share and that we have choices on how to move forward - Jackie P.S. - Please let me know if I can send you some other separate book chapters written in the last year. -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Leif Josefsson Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 6:16 PM To: Bill Scott Cc: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: Re: [Ailist] AI, Competition, and Collaboration This is an interesting conversation. Cooperation, or maybe "Co-inspiration" in contrast to competition. It is easy to elaborate around the theoretical ideas of Collaboration vs Competition But how is it in the community when it comes to action, and to the relationships between companies and individuals? How rooted are the metaphors of "War" in our way of thinking? Do we dare to share ideas, concepts etc or do we fear that someone will steal the customer, idea, concept etc.? If the underlying image is "war" then we think in win/lose - zero sum game etc. If the underlying image is "play" then the mind will think about growth, sharing, etc Let's say there is a network meeting. Do I consider bringing customers there, or am I afraid of someone else approaching them? How do you create plans and strategies that are based on Co-inspiration/Collaboration rather the Competition? What are the differences in views with an American/European/African/Asian/... other approach? What are the differences in the way you act, taking the ideas of AI really seriously? Have a good week! /Leif On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Bill Scott wrote: > Hi Simon, > > > > I saw your post and it indeed is a provocative one. I'm certain I'm > not going to stay on point and I believe others will provide you with > the specific feedback that you are seeking. > > > > The student raises some interesting and important points and he makes > the mistake that many do when considering generative change methods - > he assumes (with apologies to Gervase Bushe) that an appreciative > approach is just about the positive. A more thorough read of Jackie's > work clearly demonstrates that a SOAR analysis isn't about ignoring > weaknesses and threats, it's about reframing them so that you > understand what you want to move toward rather than what you wish to > avoid. > > > > I think the student's last remark is possibly the most telling. I > think it points to his/her bias (and perhaps dependency?) toward > traditional thinking/teaching. Jackie's SOAR model is receiving strong > reviews from a variety of private sector companies, government > departments, and social profit organizations that have used the model with great success. > > > > On a separate note, many people still view the competitive model as > essential to optimal business practice. I'm not convinced. Numerous authors > - including those not associated with AI - have independently > concluded that collaborative practice is often (though not always) > superior to competitive > practice. One non-AI author I would direct you toward in this regard > is an OB professor I studied with 15 years ago - Dean Tjosvold. > > > > Thanks for the opportunity to respond. > > > > Best regards, > > Bill Scott > > > > Surrey, B.C. > > bill at elpisconsulting.com > > www.elpisconsulting.com > > 604-574-1856 > > > > cid:image001.png at 01CA5A2E.BC3C8A00 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles > School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the > list administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist > -- ps. Jag ?ker till Gotland den 20 november. Hemv?ndardagar. Alla kan hitta hem. F?ljer du med? www.hemvandardagar.se Leif Josefsson F?renklare / Facilitator LeanderLeander AB ?landsgatan 48 - 116 63 Stockholm - tel +46 70-773 00 54 www.leanderleander.com follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/ljosefss Send me a message: http://twitter.com/direct_messages/create/ljosefss _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From palazini at cox.net Mon Nov 2 12:55:43 2009 From: palazini at cox.net (palazini at cox.net) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 14:55:43 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] Ailist Digest, Vol 80, Issue 2 Message-ID: <20091102145543.UOVAD.578850.imail@eastrmwml39> Kate, You may wish to check out the program in the state of Rhode Island: Shape Up RI. http://shapeupri.org/ I have been impressed with its approach, growth and impact. It was started by a Brown U. student 4 years ago and has grown to involve 35,000 people across the state. Julie ---- ailist-request at lists.business.utah.edu wrote: > 1. healthy eating strategies (Kate Start) > To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu > Subject: [Ailist] healthy eating strategies > > > > Dear Ai-ers, does any one know, or has been involved in, a successful > healthy weight strategy where whole communites, towns etc have been > involved? > > > > Many thanks > > Kate > > London > > England > > ************************************* From c.r.lee at xtra.co.nz Tue Nov 3 03:43:27 2009 From: c.r.lee at xtra.co.nz (Ros and Cranleigh Lee) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 23:43:27 +1300 Subject: [Ailist] Reframing vs denial Message-ID: Hi all As a personal coach who has touched only on the very basic principles of AI, I am increasingly interested in their application to the individual. I have just been discussing with a friend the role of "negative" or painful emotions and experiences in growing us as people and to what extent we should welcome and examine these emotions rather than overcome them or distract our attention from them. When does reframing a problem or a past experience become denial? Do these types of emotion have any place in the context of Appreciative Living/Coaching? Thanks Ros Lee www.mindyourthinking.com ?Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.? Viktor Frankl From rdavies at rtpcompany.com Tue Nov 3 13:30:19 2009 From: rdavies at rtpcompany.com (Roger Davies) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 14:30:19 -0600 Subject: [Ailist] Reframing vs denial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <618DB08CF8514501A04087F97C816256@winona.rtpco.local> Hi Ros, Your question touches on some parts of recent threads about the likely negative effects of too much positive thinking. I think the key thing is to be authentic with yourself and about your role in the negative experience. I always find it useful to consider things as internalized and reflective. Only YOU can make YOU act in a certain way and feel the things YOU feel. I can't make you feel bad, only you can do that by choosing your reaction. That doesn't mean that other circumstances or people cannot be involved in the negative experience but understanding how you let things affect you is a constructive way of beginning to reframe a negative experience or indeed inquire about a positive one in an authentic way. Ask what you could have done differently to change that experience at the time and what you can do differently from now on to hopefully avoid or limit the effect of its repetition. I think Jacob Bronowski said something along the lines of 'the most inhuman thing one can do is to deny oneself the possibility that one might be wrong' and that is the worst form of denial. You always play a role in your own negative experiences and emotions. Negative emotions are an essential and balancing part of life. Being appreciative is understanding the genuine differences between the two and giving each an appropriate priority in planning you future actions. Roger -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Ros and Cranleigh Lee Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 4:43 AM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: [Ailist] Reframing vs denial Hi all As a personal coach who has touched only on the very basic principles of AI, I am increasingly interested in their application to the individual. I have just been discussing with a friend the role of "negative" or painful emotions and experiences in growing us as people and to what extent we should welcome and examine these emotions rather than overcome them or distract our attention from them. When does reframing a problem or a past experience become denial? Do these types of emotion have any place in the context of Appreciative Living/Coaching? Thanks Ros Lee www.mindyourthinking.com "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." Viktor Frankl _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From wjs.consulting at shaw.ca Tue Nov 3 14:31:14 2009 From: wjs.consulting at shaw.ca (Bill Scott) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 13:31:14 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] Reframing vs denial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <020101ca5ccc$f8dae7e0$ea90b7a0$@consulting@shaw.ca> Hi Ros, An interesting question. Thanks for posting it. While my specialty or focus is more in the area of teams and organizations, I did spend the early part of my career as a youth and family counsellor. Please allow me to offer a couple of thoughts. First, anyone who doesn't acknowledge painful and unpleasant realities is indeed ignoring reality - and doing so at their own peril. There are people in the AI field who have written extensively about the "shadow" of AI and they clearly identify the value in facing painful emotions and then moving in the direction of what you wish to attain. Two of my favourite authors are Pam Johnson and Steve Fitzgerald. Their writings offer some outstanding insights into the "both/and" nature of "negatives." There is no question that negatives exist in life. To me, the critical point is what do we choose to do with them: fix what's broken or move in the direction of what we seek. An AI philosophy simply suggests the latter approach is more productive in the long term. I think reframing becomes denial if one chooses to negate or ignore the feelings that gave rise to the negative emotions. AI as a philosophy has never been about ignoring negativity or negative emotions. It has been about examining how to get more of what you want and how to get there from where you are. Finally, I suggest that you take a look at Jackie Stavros and Cheri Torres's book, Dynamic Relationships. I rarely recommend a book I have yet to fully read. I make an exception in this case. I know many people who have read this book and each and every one of them as spoken of it in glowing terms. I've also had the good fortune to work with both women and I can tell you categorically that they are outstanding AI writers and practitioners who have made innovative contributions to the field. Best regards, Bill Scott BSW, MBA Surrey, B.C., Canada bill at elpisconsulting.com www.elpisconsulting.com 604-574-1856 -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Ros and Cranleigh Lee Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 2:43 AM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: [Ailist] Reframing vs denial Hi all As a personal coach who has touched only on the very basic principles of AI, I am increasingly interested in their application to the individual. I have just been discussing with a friend the role of "negative" or painful emotions and experiences in growing us as people and to what extent we should welcome and examine these emotions rather than overcome them or distract our attention from them. When does reframing a problem or a past experience become denial? Do these types of emotion have any place in the context of Appreciative Living/Coaching? Thanks Ros Lee www.mindyourthinking.com "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." Viktor Frankl _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From robvoyle at voyle.com Tue Nov 3 14:46:13 2009 From: robvoyle at voyle.com (Rob Voyle) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:46:13 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] Reframing vs denial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AF03425.14089.14CC777D@robvoyle.voyle.com> Hi Ros There are three frames or perspectives a negative experience can be observed from. The victim, the survivor, the thriver. One doesn't deny the other, infact they only have meaning when told together. You can't change the content of what happened. to do so would be delusional. You can change the perspective from which what happened is viewed. You can also change the "how" you remember, I recently completed a free tele-seminar on resolving painful memories from a book I am working called Restoring Hope: Appreciative strategies for resolving grief and resentment. When people are stuck in painful memories they are stuck in the victim story, and repeated telling of that story will make it worse. You can find the tele-seminar recording at: http://www.clergyleadership.com/teleseminars/tele-seminars.html#memories You will have to register to get the password. There is also an extensive handout that details how to resolve painful memories by going through the survivor and thriver story. When working with individuals the "How" a person remembers is more important than the what they remember. The handout also has an extensive imagery exercise designed to help a church resolve a painful coporate memory. Rob Robert J. Voyle, Psy.D. Director, Clergy Leadership Institute For Coaching and Training in Appreciative Inquiry Author: Core Elements of the Appreciative Way http://www.clergyleadership.com/ 503-647-2378 or 503-647-2382 On 3 Nov 2009 at 23:43, Ros and Cranleigh Lee wrote: > Hi all > > As a personal coach who has touched only on the very basic > principles of AI, > I am increasingly interested in their application to the > individual. > > I have just been discussing with a friend the role of "negative" or > painful > emotions and experiences in growing us as people and to what extent > we > should welcome and examine these emotions rather than overcome them > or > distract our attention from them. When does reframing a problem or > a past > experience become denial? Do these types of emotion have any place > in the > context of Appreciative Living/Coaching? > > Thanks > Ros Lee > www.mindyourthinking.com > > > "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is > our power > to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our > freedom." > Viktor Frankl > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David > Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain > is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From msands at dccnet.com Tue Nov 3 18:01:16 2009 From: msands at dccnet.com (Mike Sands) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:01:16 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] Reframing vs denial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One part of my training asked us to take the approach that any human behavior - including the experience of an emotion - has at its base a desire for the good of the owner. It then suggested conducting an inquiry into what the desired outcome of the behaviour is. I have been led through this approach and led others through it and found it to be very helpful - ie I could start out "under the influence" of some fairly negative emotion and end up - in only several mintures feeling energetic, capable and optimisitic. The idea makes sense to me - a negative experience or emotion tells me to stop doing what it was that was causing the negative emotion. Now I don't always know what the "cause" is - but I find the guided inquiry - usually guided by a guide who helps me conjure thoughts of desired outcomes and feeling states - works very well. I am sure that the interest and other supportive behaviours of the guide (coach) are part of the mood improvement. One "delivery system" for this approach is explained in the book Core Transformation by Connirae Andreas. I have known about this approach for about 6 years - and it actully forms part of my background knowledge that helps and informs me in pursuing many of the life enhancing inquiry processes. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ros and Cranleigh Lee" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 2:43 AM Subject: [Ailist] Reframing vs denial Hi all As a personal coach who has touched only on the very basic principles of AI, I am increasingly interested in their application to the individual. I have just been discussing with a friend the role of "negative" or painful emotions and experiences in growing us as people and to what extent we should welcome and examine these emotions rather than overcome them or distract our attention from them. When does reframing a problem or a past experience become denial? Do these types of emotion have any place in the context of Appreciative Living/Coaching? Thanks Ros Lee www.mindyourthinking.com "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." Viktor Frankl _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From mail at sachinchavan.com Tue Nov 3 19:00:35 2009 From: mail at sachinchavan.com (Sachin Chavan) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 07:30:35 +0530 Subject: [Ailist] Reframing vs denial - Help from Buddha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <690CA53EBFD54A1C9D40729668B1E4C8@SachinNotebook> Ros, Your question is very fundamental. Pain is not the same as suffering. Suffering results out of a reaction to painful emotions... reaction of aversion. Cultivating equanimous awareness of the pain helps it dissolve... and along with it, the karmic roots that caused it in the first place. Easy said than done, needs grounding in mindful awareness (some have it in them without formal practice). Reframing does happen automatically, but not avoidance. One understands the pain (as well as pleasure) feeling as impermanent (anicca), not-self (anatta) and cause of suffering (dukkha). Budddha has explained the entire process of the 'dependent origination' starting from ignorance to suffering & death in the Pratitya-samutpada. Currently, I am reading Gay Watson's 'Resonance of Emptiness - A Buddhist Interpretation for a Contemporary Psychotherapy'. I suggest to those interested in the topic. Regards, Sachin www.sachinchavan.com -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Ros and Cranleigh Lee Sent: 03 November 2009 04:13 PM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: [Ailist] Reframing vs denial Hi all As a personal coach who has touched only on the very basic principles of AI, I am increasingly interested in their application to the individual. I have just been discussing with a friend the role of "negative" or painful emotions and experiences in growing us as people and to what extent we should welcome and examine these emotions rather than overcome them or distract our attention from them. When does reframing a problem or a past experience become denial? Do these types of emotion have any place in the context of Appreciative Living/Coaching? Thanks Ros Lee www.mindyourthinking.com "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." Viktor Frankl _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Wed Nov 4 00:29:27 2009 From: lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au (Lionel Boxer) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:29:27 +1100 Subject: [Ailist] Reframing vs denial Message-ID: <4AF1C80A020000AF0003AD64@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> A discursive psychologist would say that any human behaviour is discursively contructed from the conversations dominant in the society(ies) that influence(s) the person displaying that behaviour. That is, the social contruction of self and others. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> Mike Sands 04/11/09 12:05 PM >>> One part of my training asked us to take the approach that any human behavior - including the experience of an emotion - has at its base a desire for the good of the owner. It then suggested conducting an inquiry into what the desired outcome of the behaviour is. I have been led through this approach and led others through it and found it to be very helpful - ie I could start out "under the influence" of some fairly negative emotion and end up - in only several mintures feeling energetic, capable and optimisitic. The idea makes sense to me - a negative experience or emotion tells me to stop doing what it was that was causing the negative emotion. Now I don't always know what the "cause" is - but I find the guided inquiry - usually guided by a guide who helps me conjure thoughts of desired outcomes and feeling states - works very well. I am sure that the interest and other supportive behaviours of the guide (coach) are part of the mood improvement. One "delivery system" for this approach is explained in the book Core Transformation by Connirae Andreas. I have known about this approach for about 6 years - and it actully forms part of my background knowledge that helps and informs me in pursuing many of the life enhancing inquiry processes. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ros and Cranleigh Lee" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 2:43 AM Subject: [Ailist] Reframing vs denial Hi all As a personal coach who has touched only on the very basic principles of AI, I am increasingly interested in their application to the individual. I have just been discussing with a friend the role of "negative" or painful emotions and experiences in growing us as people and to what extent we should welcome and examine these emotions rather than overcome them or distract our attention from them. When does reframing a problem or a past experience become denial? Do these types of emotion have any place in the context of Appreciative Living/Coaching? Thanks Ros Lee www.mindyourthinking.com "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." Viktor Frankl _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Wed Nov 4 00:41:29 2009 From: lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au (Lionel Boxer) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:41:29 +1100 Subject: [Ailist] Reframing vs denial Message-ID: <4AF1CADA020000AF0003AD6A@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> In a way, Roger's concern could be used to define the danger of the EST cult, which is now rebranded. Divulging negative emotions through a sort of groupstress followed by too much positive thinking, which creates a dependency on further EST cult experience and a fragile sense of stability. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> "Roger Davies" 04/11/09 11:22 AM >>> Hi Ros, Your question touches on some parts of recent threads about the likely negative effects of too much positive thinking. I think the key thing is to be authentic with yourself and about your role in the negative experience. I always find it useful to consider things as internalized and reflective. Only YOU can make YOU act in a certain way and feel the things YOU feel. I can't make you feel bad, only you can do that by choosing your reaction. That doesn't mean that other circumstances or people cannot be involved in the negative experience but understanding how you let things affect you is a constructive way of beginning to reframe a negative experience or indeed inquire about a positive one in an authentic way. Ask what you could have done differently to change that experience at the time and what you can do differently from now on to hopefully avoid or limit the effect of its repetition. I think Jacob Bronowski said something along the lines of 'the most inhuman thing one can do is to deny oneself the possibility that one might be wrong' and that is the worst form of denial. You always play a role in your own negative experiences and emotions. Negative emotions are an essential and balancing part of life. Being appreciative is understanding the genuine differences between the two and giving each an appropriate priority in planning you future actions. Roger -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Ros and Cranleigh Lee Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 4:43 AM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: [Ailist] Reframing vs denial Hi all As a personal coach who has touched only on the very basic principles of AI, I am increasingly interested in their application to the individual. I have just been discussing with a friend the role of "negative" or painful emotions and experiences in growing us as people and to what extent we should welcome and examine these emotions rather than overcome them or distract our attention from them. When does reframing a problem or a past experience become denial? Do these types of emotion have any place in the context of Appreciative Living/Coaching? Thanks Ros Lee www.mindyourthinking.com "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." Viktor Frankl _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From anne at aradford.co.uk Thu Nov 5 03:19:28 2009 From: anne at aradford.co.uk (Anne Radford) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:19:28 +0000 Subject: [Ailist] Appreciative Leadership in Sweden Message-ID: Latest AIP issue: November 2009 Appreciative Leadership: An Insider's Perspective on Changing Reality Guest Editors from Sweden: Maja Helena Saiduddin (formally known as Kovacs), Sara Larsson and Mats Lundqvist Part 1: Inspiring: Exploring Leaders in the Making Eight alumni of a Swedish leadership course describe how AI transformed their realities Part 2: Wake-up Call: Leaders of the Future Three masters students talk about their journeys to become strong appreciative leaders and build a profound base for the future. Part 3: Discovering: Appreciative Leaders Already Out There Three leaders talk about their experience in very different situations:collaborative book writing and working outside personal comfort zones. In Research Notes, the focus is on IT researchers' experiences using AI in the field. Lena Holmberg describes how she started to combine software process improvement research and AI. *To buy the November 2009 issue, click here http://www.aipractitioner.com/NewShop/aipracbackiss.htm *For other leadership articles, you may want to also look at: AIP November 2005 Empowerment and Leadership Guest editors: Anne Radford and Julian Rizzello Go to http://www.aipractitioner.com/NewShop/aipracbackiss.htm for more information *AIP articles February 2009 Leaders Going Boldly Forward Authors: Wendy Briner and Eunice Aquilina February 2008 Integrating Appreciative Inquiry with Storytelling: Fostering Leadership in a Healthcare Setting: Lani Peterson November 2005 Sustaining Appreciative Inquiry in Local Government: A Challenge of Leadership: Darcy Simmons and Laverne Webb Go to http://www.aipractitioner.com/Pagefiles/article_list.htm for more information Regards, Anne Anne Radford editor at aipractitioner.com Publisher, AI (Appreciative Inquiry) Practitioner skype name: aipractitioner tel +44 (0)20 7633 9630 www.aipractitioner.com [ USEFUL LINKS ] *Contact Anne Radford http://www.aipractitioner.com/pagefiles/040911feedback.htm *Click here to view as a web page http://www.aradford.co.uk/AIP/nov2009/AIPnov09_all.html *Please forward this note to your network =================================================== THANK YOU FOR READING THIS =================================================== From lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Thu Nov 5 13:42:56 2009 From: lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au (Lionel Boxer) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 07:42:56 +1100 Subject: [Ailist] healthy eating strategies Message-ID: <4AF3D381020000AF0003AE42@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> 1980s Australian govrnment creation "Norm", a cartoon couch potatoe, who was encouraged to get off the couch and get physical. Sort of an antithesis to Olivia Newton John "let's get physical". There are still plenty of people with cases of self inflicted fatness. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> "Marti Roach" 02/11/09 7:17 AM >>> Dear Kate There is a lot of focus in the States on addressing obesity through public health and community development strategies. These include efforts at policy change (e.g. making safer, more walkable communities; policies on healthy school lunches and getting soda machines out of schools). Other efforts focus on community organizing and fostering programs that support individual awareness and change. The prevention Institute in Oakland, CA has a number of initiatives that are foundation funded in this arena of action. The US Center for Disease Control also funds multi-million dollar projects targeting high need communities where there are clear health inequities or high obesity /chronic disease related to obesity rates. -Marti ***************************************** Marti Roach, MSW Certified ToP Facilitator Facilitation - Strategic Planning - Grant Writing PH: 925.376.3853 FAX: 925.376.6827 ***************************************** -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Kate Start Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 8:01 AM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: [Ailist] healthy eating strategies Dear Ai-ers, does any one know, or has been involved in, a successful healthy weight strategy where whole communites, towns etc have been involved? Many thanks Kate London England _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From cwhitneysanchez at gmail.com Thu Nov 5 19:32:02 2009 From: cwhitneysanchez at gmail.com (Christine Whitney Sanchez) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 19:32:02 -0700 Subject: [Ailist] Free recording - Getting Our Collective Act Together with Christine Whitney Sanchez & Gabriel Shirley Message-ID: <0E69F056-E457-4022-82D0-A94927647EE7@gmail.com> Dear AI and Open Space friends, On October 14, Gabriel Shirley and I hosted a teleconference session called "Getting our Collective Act Together." Although you will not be able to hear the breakout group discussions (we began with Appreciative Interviews and then kept those pairs together for the first of two rounds of World Cafe), you think you might enjoy the large group discussions. You can download for free at http://mm2audio.s3.amazonaws.com/ChristineWhitneySanchez.mp3 . Warm wishes from a warm Phoenix evening, Christine Christine Whitney Sanchez Collaborative Wisdom & Strategy 480.759.0262 www.christinewhitneysanchez.com Skype: christinewhitneysanchez http://www.facebook.com/ChristineWhitneySanchez From MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz Thu Nov 5 20:24:54 2009 From: MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz (Michael L Schwartz) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 22:24:54 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positive direction - CarlRogers In-Reply-To: References: <4AE71615020000AF0003A9BC@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> <41C6B1C6BF7B4A3AB18ED254BFFBCCCD@winona.rtpco.local> <008101ca5993$e0f5a520$a2e0ef60$@biz> Message-ID: <00d401ca5e90$b55e05e0$201a11a0$@biz> Roger; Point of clarification: Military are trained to follow orders whether they believe in the orders or not.as long as the orders are lawful. Their training includes doing what is best to carry out those orders. If their orders are to, for instance, provide relief to civilian populations then they will do that even if that population is in opposition to them. By that very act these military persons are doing what is best for the whole, not just for themselves. They will put themselves "in harm's way" for people who oppose them if that is what they are ordered to do. If those orders include building infrastructure; hospitals, schools, roads, etc; then they will do that. I personally know military people whose missions were to help set-up civilian governments, not to engage in military actions. Michael L Schwartz, PE, PMP President Positive Concepts, Inc. Office: 248 828 7701 Fax: 248 828 7708 Cell: 248 318 6070 Email: MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz Web: www.PositiveConcepts.biz LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaellschwartz Enhancing the positive. From: Roger Davies [mailto:rdavies at rtpcompany.com] Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:08 AM To: 'Michael L Schwartz'; 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: RE: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positive direction - CarlRogers Hi Michael, Another point of view might be that the military are trained to do what is best for everyone who happens to share their point of view. By definition they do not act in the best interests of those they are in opposition to. Nor do they act to seek alternative solutions other than a military one to the conflict in which they are engaged. On the matter of being trained to act for the good of others what about those in the church who are also trained to do what is better for everyone, or those in healthcare who dedicate themselves to healing others, or maybe those in education who also dedicate themselves to sharing their knowledge for the benefit of others. >From another perspective only two sectors of the economy actually take a raw material and turn it into something more valuable thereby generating 'actual' economic growth. Those are the sectors of agriculture and manufacturing. Maybe service in those areas should be a pre-condition since it is only those two sectors that pay for everyone else. Maybe the only pre-condition is that you are subject to the laws and conditions of the society in which you live. Personally I am a permanent resident in the US and though subject to all the laws and regulations etc of the society I am not permitted to vote in a US election. Should that be permitted? I could vote in elections in my native country but since I'm not subject to the laws and regulations that seems a little unfair and would be purely politically motivated so I choose not to. A broad range of views makes for healthy government. One only has to look at those that are either heavily militarized, religiously biased or for that matter politically highly polarized to uncover that. It's a long time since I have read up on this but I believe that to serve in government in ancient Greece one had to give up ownership and involvement in the private sector. Now that would be a step forward. Imagine if the only income a politician could have was that given to them by their constituents. Who's interests would they then act to best to serve? How much power would a lobbyist have? I believe that on an individual level it is more a question of motivation rather than one of training and of course whether or not one has a collaborative and generative persuasion for problem solving or something different. Roger _____ From: Michael L Schwartz [mailto:MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz] Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 2:05 PM To: 'Roger Davies'; 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: RE: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positive direction - CarlRogers Roger; Your comment about "... the temptation for one to make a morally incorrect choice for the benefit of individual gain..." brought to mind something in Robert Heinlein's novel Starship Troopers. (Not to be confused with the movie of the same name, only loosely based on the book.) The novel mentions that to be a "citizen" and to have the privilege of voting one must have served in the military. The reason being that being in the military trains one to do what is best for everyone, not just for self. Now, I don't necessarily advocate military service as a requirement for voting, but it is an interesting concept. What about such a requirement for our elected government representatives? Especially those that have "command authority" over military units. Michael L Schwartz, PE, PMP President Positive Concepts, Inc. Office: 248 828 7701 Fax: 248 828 7708 Cell: 248 318 6070 Email: MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz Web: www.PositiveConcepts.biz LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaellschwartz Enhancing the positive. -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Roger Davies Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:22 AM To: 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positive direction - CarlRogers Hi Lionel, Maybe a little 'off topic' but after 15 years of management in industry I have a very strong feeling about incentives. They are a bad idea and insidiously undermine employee commitment and alignment. Why? Because they provide the temptation for one to make a morally incorrect choice for the benefit of individual gain (or realize individual gain from a choice they should have made anyway such as an 'attendance bonus'). There is a difference between incentive and reward. Rewards are good because they come after the act attracting them has been performed and the person receiving them was not aware that they would get a reward for acting the way that they did. Of course in all cases one must be consistent in their application. Ai is the perfect tool to generate alignment within an organization because alignment stems from compassion. If all members of the organization care about the work that they do and the well being of each other their performance, in any way that one cares to measure it, is exemplary. I have had the benefit of experiencing this and also the unfortunate of experience of seeing it significantly diminished by the application of the 'one size fits all' standardization so prevalent in public corporations. What baffles me is that those very organizations that spend extraordinary efforts on limiting individuality also desire innovation and wonder why it's so difficult to realize from their employees. Innovation requires freedom to think and act outside of the norm. Roger -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 11:48 PM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positive direction - CarlRogers Yes. But what are they positive about and is their personal direction aligned with the organisation? That alignment is the issue. People are positive about their personal goals. So, incentives offered to employees by an organisation need to be crafted with that in mind as well as an employee's ability to manipulate the incentive system to reward themself and potentially harm the organisation or even break laws. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> "Sachin Chavan" 27/10/09 1:40 AM >>> In the background of the latest discussion on positive thinking, financial crisis etc, here's a passage from Carl Rogers' 'On Becoming a Person': 'There is one deep learning which is perhaps basic to all of the things I have said thus far. It has been forced upon me by more than twenty-five years of trying to be helpful to individuals in personal stress. It is simply this. It has been my experience that persons have a basically positive direction. In my deepest contact with individuals in therapy, even those whose troubles are most disturbing, whose behaviour has been most anti-social, whose feelings seem most abnormal, I find this to e true. When I can sensitively understand the feelings which they are expressing, when I am able to accept them as separate persons in their own right, then I find that they tend to move in certain directions. And what are these directions in which they tend to move? The words which I believe are most truly descriptive, are words such as positive, constructive, moving toward self-actualisation, growing toward maturity, growing toward socialisation, I have come to feel that the more fully the individual is understood and accepted, the more he tends to drop the false fronts with which he has been meeting life, and the more he tends to move in a direction which is forward. I would not want to be misunderstood on this. I do not have a Pollyanna view of human nature. I am quite aware that out of defensiveness and inner far individuals can do behave in ways which are incredibly cruel, horribly destructive, immature, regressive, anti-social, hurtful. Yet one of the most refreshing and invigorating parts of my experience is to work with such individuals and to discover the strongly positive directional tendencies which exist in them, as in all of us, at the deepest levels.' Chapter 1 "This is me". 'On Becoming a Person" - Carl Rogers, 1961. Regards Sachin _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From macodell at verizon.net Thu Nov 5 20:54:34 2009 From: macodell at verizon.net (MALCOLM ODELL) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:54:34 +0300 Subject: [Ailist] Waging Peace--re: Persons have a basically positive direction - CarlRogers In-Reply-To: <00d401ca5e90$b55e05e0$201a11a0$@biz> References: <4AE71615020000AF0003A9BC@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> <41C6B1C6BF7B4A3AB18ED254BFFBCCCD@winona.rtpco.local> <008101ca5993$e0f5a520$a2e0ef60$@biz> <00d401ca5e90$b55e05e0$201a11a0$@biz> Message-ID: <17318DA0-7058-4BEB-B866-351A14699DB3@verizon.net> As I start packing my bags to head for Kathmandu for the great AI Conference ahead, I remember clearly hiking through the mountains of Nepal some years ago and meeting a Gurkha soldier carrying a big tube over his shoulder that looked like a bazooka or RPG... When I asked, thinking there may be trouble up the rugged trail ahead somewhere, he replied: "Oh, no. This is not a weapon, it's a survey instrument. We're building a road to connect these villages to the outside world.... Isn't that what Armies like ours should really be doing!?" Yes, the military has done great stuff in such cases as the Pakistan Earthquake, the Asian Tsunami, and, my niece included, is really doing it's darndest to rebuild Afghanistan and bring in the type of infrastructure our Nepali Gurkha was talking about. Not to mention the amazing peacekeeping operations that give thousands of soldiers from around the world a chance to help stabilize nasty situations. (If only we'd been there in Rwanda....) Can we all imagine the world's armies all becoming peace keepers... policing dangerous situations.... while spending their time and energies between engagements building roads, schools, hospitals.... ??! Well, Nepal did that... brought about an end to a decade of Maoist rebellion... peacefully... their Ghurkas are keeping the peace in dangerous places around the world... and back home they're back to building roads. We'll be talking about just these types of questions and issues at the 2009 World Appreciative Inquiry Conference in Kathmandu in just a week or so. If you're not already coming, think again... We'll be hosted by Nepal's Minister of Peace... think about that... Do we have a 'Secretary of Peace' in the US>>>?? Join Us!! Peace! Mac Odell On Nov 6, 2009, at 6:24 AM, Michael L Schwartz wrote: > Roger; > > > > Point of clarification: Military are trained to follow orders > whether they > believe in the orders or not.as long as the orders are lawful. Their > training includes doing what is best to carry out those orders. If > their > orders are to, for instance, provide relief to civilian populations > then > they will do that even if that population is in opposition to them. > By that > very act these military persons are doing what is best for the > whole, not > just for themselves. They will put themselves "in harm's way" for > people who > oppose them if that is what they are ordered to do. If those orders > include > building infrastructure; hospitals, schools, roads, etc; then they > will do > that. I personally know military people whose missions were to help > set-up > civilian governments, not to engage in military actions. > > > > Michael L Schwartz, PE, PMP > > President > > Positive Concepts, Inc. > > Office: 248 828 7701 > > Fax: 248 828 7708 > > Cell: 248 318 6070 > > Email: MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz > > Web: www.PositiveConcepts.biz > > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaellschwartz > > > > Enhancing the positive. > > > > From: Roger Davies [mailto:rdavies at rtpcompany.com] > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:08 AM > To: 'Michael L Schwartz'; 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu > ; > mail at sachinchavan.com > Subject: RE: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positive direction - > CarlRogers > > > > Hi Michael, > > > > Another point of view might be that the military are trained to do > what is > best for everyone who happens to share their point of view. By > definition > they do not act in the best interests of those they are in > opposition to. > Nor do they act to seek alternative solutions other than a military > one to > the conflict in which they are engaged. > > > > On the matter of being trained to act for the good of others what > about > those in the church who are also trained to do what is better for > everyone, > or those in healthcare who dedicate themselves to healing others, or > maybe > those in education who also dedicate themselves to sharing their > knowledge > for the benefit of others. > > > >> From another perspective only two sectors of the economy actually >> take a raw > material and turn it into something more valuable thereby generating > 'actual' economic growth. Those are the sectors of agriculture and > manufacturing. Maybe service in those areas should be a pre- > condition since > it is only those two sectors that pay for everyone else. > > > > Maybe the only pre-condition is that you are subject to the laws and > conditions of the society in which you live. Personally I am a > permanent > resident in the US and though subject to all the laws and > regulations etc of > the society I am not permitted to vote in a US election. Should that > be > permitted? I could vote in elections in my native country but since > I'm not > subject to the laws and regulations that seems a little unfair and > would be > purely politically motivated so I choose not to. > > > > A broad range of views makes for healthy government. One only has to > look at > those that are either heavily militarized, religiously biased or for > that > matter politically highly polarized to uncover that. It's a long > time since > I have read up on this but I believe that to serve in government in > ancient > Greece one had to give up ownership and involvement in the private > sector. > Now that would be a step forward. Imagine if the only income a > politician > could have was that given to them by their constituents. Who's > interests > would they then act to best to serve? How much power would a > lobbyist have? > > > > I believe that on an individual level it is more a question of > motivation > rather than one of training and of course whether or not one has a > collaborative and generative persuasion for problem solving or > something > different. > > > > Roger > > > > _____ > > From: Michael L Schwartz [mailto:MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz] > Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 2:05 PM > To: 'Roger Davies'; 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; > mail at sachinchavan.com > Subject: RE: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positive direction - > CarlRogers > > Roger; > > > > Your comment about "... the temptation for one to make a morally > incorrect > choice for the benefit of individual gain..." brought to mind > something in > Robert Heinlein's novel Starship Troopers. (Not to be confused with > the > movie of the same name, only loosely based on the book.) The novel > mentions > that to be a "citizen" and to have the privilege of voting one must > have > served in the military. The reason being that being in the military > trains > one to do what is best for everyone, not just for self. Now, I don't > necessarily advocate military service as a requirement for voting, > but it is > an interesting concept. What about such a requirement for our elected > government representatives? Especially those that have "command > authority" > over military units. > > > > Michael L Schwartz, PE, PMP > > President > > Positive Concepts, Inc. > > Office: 248 828 7701 > > Fax: 248 828 7708 > > Cell: 248 318 6070 > > Email: MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz > > Web: www.PositiveConcepts.biz > > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaellschwartz > > > > Enhancing the positive. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu > [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Roger > Davies > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:22 AM > To: 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com > Subject: Re: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positive direction - > CarlRogers > > > > Hi Lionel, > > > > Maybe a little 'off topic' but after 15 years of management in > industry I > > have a very strong feeling about incentives. They are a bad idea and > > insidiously undermine employee commitment and alignment. Why? > Because they > > provide the temptation for one to make a morally incorrect choice > for the > > benefit of individual gain (or realize individual gain from a choice > they > > should have made anyway such as an 'attendance bonus'). > > > > There is a difference between incentive and reward. Rewards are good > because > > they come after the act attracting them has been performed and the > person > > receiving them was not aware that they would get a reward for acting > the way > > that they did. Of course in all cases one must be consistent in their > > application. > > > > Ai is the perfect tool to generate alignment within an organization > because > > alignment stems from compassion. If all members of the organization > care > > about the work that they do and the well being of each other their > > performance, in any way that one cares to measure it, is exemplary. > I have > > had the benefit of experiencing this and also the unfortunate of > experience > > of seeing it significantly diminished by the application of the 'one > size > > fits all' standardization so prevalent in public corporations. > > > > What baffles me is that those very organizations that spend > extraordinary > > efforts on limiting individuality also desire innovation and wonder > why it's > > so difficult to realize from their employees. Innovation requires > freedom to > > think and act outside of the norm. > > > > Roger > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu > > [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Lionel > Boxer > > Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 11:48 PM > > To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com > > Subject: Re: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positive direction - > > CarlRogers > > > > Yes. But what are they positive about and is their personal direction > > aligned with the organisation? That alignment is the issue. People > are > > positive about their personal goals. So, incentives offered to > employees by > > an organisation need to be crafted with that in mind as well as an > > employee's ability to manipulate the incentive system to reward > themself and > > potentially harm the organisation or even break laws. > > > > Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT > > University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my > > "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" > > now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net > >>>> "Sachin Chavan" 27/10/09 1:40 AM >>> > > In the background of the latest discussion on positive thinking, > financial > > crisis etc, here's a passage from Carl Rogers' 'On Becoming a Person': > > > > 'There is one deep learning which is perhaps basic to all of the > things I > > have said thus far. It has been forced upon me by more than twenty- > five > > years of trying to be helpful to individuals in personal stress. It is > > simply this. It has been my experience that persons have a basically > > positive direction. In my deepest contact with individuals in > therapy, even > > those whose troubles are most disturbing, whose behaviour has been > most > > anti-social, whose feelings seem most abnormal, I find this to e > true. When > > I can sensitively understand the feelings which they are expressing, > when I > > am able to accept them as separate persons in their own right, then > I find > > that they tend to move in certain directions. And what are these > directions > > in which they tend to move? The words which I believe are most truly > > descriptive, are words such as positive, constructive, moving toward > > self-actualisation, growing toward maturity, growing toward > socialisation, I > > have come to feel that the more fully the individual is understood and > > accepted, the more he tends to drop the false fronts with which he > has been > > meeting life, and the more he tends to move in a direction which is > forward. > > > > I would not want to be misunderstood on this. I do not have a > Pollyanna view > > of human nature. I am quite aware that out of defensiveness and > inner far > > individuals can do behave in ways which are incredibly cruel, horribly > > destructive, immature, regressive, anti-social, hurtful. Yet one of > the most > > refreshing and invigorating parts of my experience is to work with > such > > individuals and to discover the strongly positive directional > tendencies > > which exist in them, as in all of us, at the deepest levels.' > > > > Chapter 1 "This is me". 'On Becoming a Person" - Carl Rogers, 1961. > > > > > > Regards > > Sachin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles > > School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the > list > > administrator. For subscription information, go to: > > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles > > School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the > list > > administrator. For subscription information, go to: > > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles > School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the > list > administrator. For subscription information, go to: > > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David > Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain > is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From sjwells at earthlink.net Fri Nov 6 06:41:41 2009 From: sjwells at earthlink.net (Sandy Wells) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 08:41:41 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positivedirection-CarlRogers In-Reply-To: References: <4AE71615020000AF0003A9BC@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au><41C6B1C6BF7B4A3AB18ED254BFFBCCCD@winona.rtpco.local><008101ca5993$e0f5a520$a2e0ef60$@biz> Message-ID: <2E15ABCAC5704EF1A247775454C755E9@SandyPC> Greetings, all. I usually read the emails here and savor most of what I read, so thank you regular contributors. I am compelled to write a response to Roger on the first paragraph of his email below. ----Another point of view might be that the military are trained to do what is best for everyone who happens to share their point of view. By definition they do not act in the best interests of those they are in opposition to. Nor do they act to seek alternative solutions other than a military one to the conflict in which they are engaged.----- Yes, the members of the military are trained to follow the chain of command. However, there are tremendous changes in the military today. Young officers are taught not only about the ethics of legal commands but also encouraged to speak up and challenge respectfully, offer their perspectives. This may be a shock to those in the "brown shoe" Army who were told to "line up" and that's it...but in certain circumstances, those on the ground definitely have an opportunity to offer their real-time observations since they know the terrain and the enemy positioning far better than someone in a command center far away. Further, the military is engaged in enormous civil actions in modern conflict environments. One normally doesn't see the schools being rebuilt by soldiers in the press because it doesn't match up with mental models of military action. When my son was inoculating Iraqi children and taking care of people with maladies that had never received medical attention, that was definitely in the category of alternative solutions. Just wanted to offer another perspective to the view presented. Sandy Sandy Wells Northern VA From rdavies at rtpcompany.com Fri Nov 6 07:15:30 2009 From: rdavies at rtpcompany.com (Roger Davies) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 08:15:30 -0600 Subject: [Ailist] Industry Week article Message-ID: <918F0F65BBBE4CB5A58399BFEA29045C@winona.rtpco.local> http://www.industryweek.com/articles/katadyn_bucks_trend_chooses_manual_labo r_over_automation_20353.aspx I know that such a publication will rarely get a mention on the list but I thought the contents of the article might be intriguing to some. In 'Small is Beautiful ' E F Schumacher proposes that it is socially more productive for industry to employ people rather than to maximize profits. This company seems to be doing both by considering whether globalization, extended supply chains and the IT systems required to support the current manufacturing trend is actually is beneficial and cost effective. I'm not saying this would work in very case (though it equally might) but one does wonder if this is a potential model for our own economic recovery. I imagine there is also an environmental benefit because the distance goods have to be moved is probably greatly reduced. By extension that would bring economic benefits by reducing the amount of fuel that needed to be imported and/or making shorter range, alternatively fuelled vehicles a more realistic alternative. It's interesting though that a large proportion of the product is exported to America. At what point would a relationship that allowed a similar facility to be built in America be beneficial? Without focusing on large companies what could be done to help small and medium sized enterprises invest into other countries? Just some food for thought. Roger From rxa194 at case.edu Fri Nov 6 07:43:32 2009 From: rxa194 at case.edu (Roslin Atley) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 07:43:32 -0700 Subject: [Ailist] AI Topic Physician Governance Message-ID: <94784d070911060643n57df305cm9d3707db788445c7@mail.gmail.com> Has anyone created an inquiry into physician governance in hospital environment? From lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Fri Nov 6 16:19:59 2009 From: lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au (Lionel Boxer) Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:19:59 +1100 Subject: [Ailist] Persons have a basically positivedirection-CarlRogers Message-ID: <4AF549D0020000AF0003AECB@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Sandy, It is not as simple as that. The military does one job and the politicians seek an alternate solution. There are many options open to humanity, but the military is trained to perform one job and is ineffective at others. Mind you, there are different ways the military can be deployed and that is defined by the rules of engagement established by the politicians. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> "Sandy Wells" 07/11/09 12:44 AM >>> Greetings, all. I usually read the emails here and savor most of what I read, so thank you regular contributors. I am compelled to write a response to Roger on the first paragraph of his email below. ----Another point of view might be that the military are trained to do what is best for everyone who happens to share their point of view. By definition they do not act in the best interests of those they are in opposition to. Nor do they act to seek alternative solutions other than a military one to the conflict in which they are engaged.----- Yes, the members of the military are trained to follow the chain of command. However, there are tremendous changes in the military today. Young officers are taught not only about the ethics of legal commands but also encouraged to speak up and challenge respectfully, offer their perspectives. This may be a shock to those in the "brown shoe" Army who were told to "line up" and that's it...but in certain circumstances, those on the ground definitely have an opportunity to offer their real-time observations since they know the terrain and the enemy positioning far better than someone in a command center far away. Further, the military is engaged in enormous civil actions in modern conflict environments. One normally doesn't see the schools being rebuilt by soldiers in the press because it doesn't match up with mental models of military action. When my son was inoculating Iraqi children and taking care of people with maladies that had never received medical attention, that was definitely in the category of alternative solutions. Just wanted to offer another perspective to the view presented. Sandy Sandy Wells Northern VA _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From bruce at bruceelkin.com Fri Nov 6 18:28:42 2009 From: bruce at bruceelkin.com (Bruce Elkin) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:28:42 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] Industry Week article In-Reply-To: <918F0F65BBBE4CB5A58399BFEA29045C@winona.rtpco.local> Message-ID: > http://www.industryweek.com/articles/katadyn_bucks_trend_chooses_manual_labo > r_over_automation_20353.aspx > > I know that such a publication will rarely get a mention on the list but I > thought the contents of the article might be intriguing to some. In 'Small > is Beautiful ' E F Schumacher proposes that it is socially more productive > for industry to employ people rather than to maximize profits. This company > seems to be doing both by considering whether globalization, extended supply > chains and the IT systems required to support the current manufacturing > trend is actually is beneficial and cost effective. Excellent article, Roger. And a great idea. Europeans have a much more evolved sense of the business of business. Example: regs in Scandinavian countries limiting CEO?s salaries to +/- 20 times the lowest paid workers. And most are satisfied with their $3 or 4 hundred thousand dollar salaries. Imagine floating that on Wall St. Cheers! Bruce ********************************************************************* BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? With Whatever Life Throws At You! 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book ?Tell me, what will you do with your one wild and precious life?? - Mary Oliver Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com ******************************************************************* From cwhitneysanchez at gmail.com Fri Nov 6 19:18:34 2009 From: cwhitneysanchez at gmail.com (Christine Whitney Sanchez) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 19:18:34 -0700 Subject: [Ailist] Free teleconference with David Cooperrider - Thank you! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <334F3336-A7A8-4D18-A621-A7536D72F6AB@gmail.com> Thanks for the kind words, Cathy. It was a joy all the way around. The link for the recording will be coming soon. Warm wishes from a cooler (finally!) evening in Phoenix, Christine Christine Whitney Sanchez Collaborative Wisdom & Strategy 480.759.0262 www.christinewhitneysanchez.com Skype: christinewhitneysanchez http://www.facebook.com/ChristineWhitneySanchez On Oct 30, 2009, at 12:18 PM, Cathy Joseph wrote: > Christine, thank you for this teleconference - it was quite possibly > the > best audio conference in which I have ever participated! Being part > of a > conversation about using AI for community development was inspiring in > itself, and being able to participate in small group breakouts > throughout > the call added a depth that I have never experienced as part of a > remote > meeting. Maestro Conferencing was new to me - what an outstanding > resource! > > With thanks & appreciation, > > Cathy Joseph > > -----Original Message----- > From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu > [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu]On Behalf Of Christine > Whitney Sanchez > Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 12:44 AM > To: AI list > Subject: [Ailist] Free teleconference with David Cooperrider - > Friday,October > > > Dear AI Friends, > > You are invited to join David Cooperrider, Gabriel Shirley, Amy Lenzo > and me on a free teleconference- http://tinyurl.com/yjgnxmv > > Friday, October 30 at 9:00am PDT, 10:00am MDT, 11:00am CDT, 12:00pm > EDT, 21:00 UTC > > David's session is called "The AI Summit: How a Single Management > Innovation Changes Everything". He will be sharing stories about some > of the most exciting innovations in Appreciative Inquiry. > > Here is a link showing David's latest application of the AI Summit-- > with a whole city seeking to use AI as an economic development engine > and a way to turn "going green" into a source of innovation. If you > are able, please read the news coverage and articles and the links > prior to David's exciting session on October 30th. > http://appreciativeinquiry.case.edu/intro/comment.cfm > > Hope you can join us! > > Warm wishes from the stormy desert, > > Christine > > Christine Whitney Sanchez > Collaborative Wisdom & Strategy > 480.759.0262 > www.christinewhitneysanchez.com > Skype: christinewhitneysanchez > http://www.facebook.com/ChristineWhitneySanchez > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles > School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the > list > administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.36/2465 - Release Date: > 10/28/09 > 09:34:00 > From lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Sun Nov 8 01:31:11 2009 From: lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au (Lionel Boxer) Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:31:11 +1100 Subject: [Ailist] Is Rupert Murdoch appreciative ... ? Message-ID: <4AF71C7D020000AF0003AEF7@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> I agree with Rupert Murdoch, "RUDD IS DELUSIONAL" China and America will not reduce carbon emissions if Rudd destroys the Australian economy. No one notices what goes on in Australia. I grew up in Canada, where we only heard about Australia if a crocodile ate a Canadian (ie rare to never). I think Rupert Murdoch appreciated a rather important factor that Mr Rudd is unable to give a balanced consideration to. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net From macodell at verizon.net Sun Nov 8 23:34:18 2009 From: macodell at verizon.net (MALCOLM ODELL) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 09:34:18 +0300 Subject: [Ailist] Kathmandu or not??--Please give us a hand !! Message-ID: <5BBF9C12-4251-49C2-8862-1323842492B3@verizon.net> Dear Friends of Appreciative Inquiry, We're excited about this historic event, now to be opened by the President of Nepal, and just need to ask you for some help as we go for the countdown. We need to raise $3000 during this week to cover the few gaps that remain. Whether you will be with us in Kathmandu (330 participants from 38 countries!!); Online from where you are; or just among the hundreds who can't make it to Nepal but wish you were with us for this exciting conference, we write to ask your support to help make the conference "even better." Please join with us and send a pledge by return email. We'll reply with instructions asap on how to get the cash to the right place. Here's the story: We are almost at 'break-even' -- a miracle given these rough economic times--but we are still short of the funds needed to bring those wonderful WORTH women from Chitwan for our Day 2 interactive session. And we need support for our colleagues in Nepal who have put this conference together. We deliberately kept our fees very low, compared to most such events, to enable more folks from Africa, Asia, Latin America, Middle East to join us. It worked! But gaps remain. Details: Those remarkable WORTH women made it through the Maoist rebellion, through one political crisis after another, they kept their village banks going, and are still hard at work educating their daughters, ending domestic violence, and--as the biggest circle of AI practitioners that we know about anywhere in the world--have ended poverty for themselves and thousands of other women in Nepal, and now across half-a-dozen other countries in Asia and Africa. But we can't ask these amazing women to have to pay from their own pockets to come meet with us in Kathmandu--and we can't ask the local grass roots NGO, Samjhauta--which is making the arrangements for them to come and for setting up village visits for those of us going to visit them after the conference--to pay from their pockets either. And... as important: We can't let our Nepali colleagues--who have worked tirelessly for the past year to organize this great event--to dig into their own personal pockets to cover the remaining costs in Nepal! They have all volunteered to pay full freight as participants... We cannot let them do that after all they have done, not only for the Conference, but for the global Appreciative Inquiry movement they are supporting. So, please, dig into your hearts and wallets and send us whatever you can spare. The two of us are each chipping in $100. Can you do the same? Or $25, $50... or maybe $500 if you got a bonus check recently? Reply with your pledge by return email and we'll get back to you ASAP with instructions on how to get the money to us. Only a week to go! "Do it Now!" 'Yes We Can!" With heartfelt thanks, and lots of 'appreciation,' Jane Magruder Watkins Malcolm Odell for the 2009 World Appreciative Inquiry Conference Planning Team ------------- PS from Jane: "Well, I worked in the Southern Sudan at the beginning of Ananya 2, and in Zimbabwe at the end of the war..... not to mention all those years in South Africa and the beginning of the civil war in Liberia. So we aren't worrying. Just looking forward to the conference and the trip to meet the WORTH women.... Like to give something back! See you soon and thanks so much for all your work. Hugs, Jane" From mail at sachinchavan.com Mon Nov 9 01:14:37 2009 From: mail at sachinchavan.com (Sachin Chavan) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 13:44:37 +0530 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? Message-ID: <0817000B05744A28A627206EF981A314@SachinNotebook> Money/profits? It is more akin to blood of business (transfer mechanism). Products and services? But they change. Employees and other stakeholders? They sound like organs/parts. What makes all these alive? Mission/purpose? It is closer to its Dharma. So then, what is the Prana (life force) of business? What keeps it going? What heals it? What enriches it? ? ? Regards, Sachin From lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Mon Nov 9 12:41:39 2009 From: lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au (Lionel Boxer) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 06:41:39 +1100 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? Message-ID: <4AF90B23020000AF0003AFD5@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Money is the life force of business. One may argue this, but if you dig deeply, if it is anything other than money then the organisation is something other than a business, which is perhaps directs to a more important question. That is, what should a business be for it to best serve humanity and the ecology, which is what John Elkington's triple bottom line / sustainability is all about. I explored this a bit without the aid of AI in my PhD using another social constructionist theory, Positioning Theory. See http://intergon.net/phd Triple bottom line is one thing, but traditional business is about money. However, it appears that everything in business is reduced to money. Even when we start dealing with the ecology, we reduce it to cabon trading, which in my opinion is a severe cop-out. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> "Sachin Chavan" 10/11/09 2:37 AM >>> Money/profits? It is more akin to blood of business (transfer mechanism). Products and services? But they change. Employees and other stakeholders? They sound like organs/parts. What makes all these alive? Mission/purpose? It is closer to its Dharma. So then, what is the Prana (life force) of business? What keeps it going? What heals it? What enriches it? ? ? Regards, Sachin _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From bruce at bruceelkin.com Mon Nov 9 12:47:49 2009 From: bruce at bruceelkin.com (Bruce Elkin) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:47:49 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: <4AF90B23020000AF0003AFD5@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Message-ID: Before there was money, there was still business. At the heart of early business ? and perhaps, of business yet to come ? was sharing and serving: helping each other. Cheers! Bruce ********************************************************************* BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? With Whatever Life Throws At You! 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book ?Tell me, what will you do with your one wild and precious life?? - Mary Oliver Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com ******************************************************************* From lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Mon Nov 9 12:53:29 2009 From: lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au (Lionel Boxer) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 06:53:29 +1100 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) ofBusiness? Message-ID: <4AF90DE9020000AF0003AFE3@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Back to my point, what is the definition of business? How do we frame it so that it is more than money - John Elkington did that and has been advising multinational corporations and travelling the world presenting conferences ever since. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> Bruce Elkin 10/11/09 6:52 AM >>> Before there was money, there was still business. At the heart of early business ? and perhaps, of business yet to come ? was sharing and serving: helping each other. Cheers! Bruce ********************************************************************* BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? With Whatever Life Throws At You! 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book ?Tell me, what will you do with your one wild and precious life?? - Mary Oliver Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com ******************************************************************* _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From stephanie at brainhygiene.com Mon Nov 9 13:15:54 2009 From: stephanie at brainhygiene.com (Stephanie) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 13:15:54 -0700 Subject: [Ailist] Harvard's very popular course on justice now available to you online Message-ID: <3A4438AE-7989-4508-A098-7BA6BB4C2716@brainhygiene.com> http://westallen.typepad.com/idealawg/2009/11/harvards-very-popular-course-on-justice-now.html Stephanie ???????????????????????????????????? Stephanie West Allen, JD http://www.brainsonpurpose.com http://www.idealawg.net Denver, CO USA From robvoyle at voyle.com Mon Nov 9 13:34:09 2009 From: robvoyle at voyle.com (Rob Voyle) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:34:09 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: <4AF90B23020000AF0003AFD5@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> References: <4AF90B23020000AF0003AFD5@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Message-ID: <4AF80C41.13550.1BC6F96D@robvoyle.voyle.com> Hi Lionel Money has for many become the life force, but it is not capable of giving life. Much of our economic woes have occurred because people saw money as life- giving. The purpose of any business is to make a worthwhile contribution to the well- being of others while receiving a worthwhile benefit in exchange. Justice requires that the worthwhile benefit does not deprive others from the opportnity to pursue that which is life-giving. The life force may vary from company to company, but if you do an AI in the business you will find what is life giving are things like: creativity, caring, enthusiasm, novelty, inspration, encouragement, vision. etc. Money can't buy or sell these. These life-giving realities and how we are connected to that which is greater than ourselves (our company with customers or society) through the offering of our products and services are spiritual realities, that organizations need to attend to or they will die, or cause others to die. Executive coach Brian Guest, a former banking executive and I have started loking at these issues from the perspective of Priest and Profit. How do we integrate these spiritual realities with business realities. It is not enough to simply trying to balance them as that leads to all sorts of unsustainable tensions. When we integrate them we can create sustainable business rather than buisnesses that strip-mine the physical, social and spiritual environments they operate in. Rob Robert J. Voyle, Psy.D. Director, Clergy Leadership Institute For Coaching and Training in Appreciative Inquiry Author: Core Elements of the Appreciative Way http://www.clergyleadership.com/ 503-647-2378 or 503-647-2382 On 10 Nov 2009 at 6:41, Lionel Boxer wrote: > Money is the life force of business. One may argue this, but if you dig > deeply, if it is anything other than money then the organisation is > something other than a business, which is perhaps directs to a more > important question. That is, what should a business be for it to best > serve humanity and the ecology, which is what John Elkington's triple > bottom line / sustainability is all about. > From coachpb at comcast.net Mon Nov 9 14:10:37 2009 From: coachpb at comcast.net (sherene zolno) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:10:37 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would say that the life force of business is the sense of self-worth, hope and capability each member of the business is able to experience--an expresssion of their creativity and aliveness. I will be talk a bit more about this during my online presentation at the conference. Appreciative Leading: seeing the way to a healthy world. I will be presenting the Model for a Healthy World, based on our research into appreciative leadership. Come join me! Sherene Zolno On 11/9/09 11:47 AM, "Bruce Elkin" wrote: > Before there was money, there was still business. > > At the heart of early business ? and perhaps, of business yet to come ? was > sharing and serving: helping each other. > > Cheers! > Bruce > ********************************************************************* > BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? > With Whatever Life Throws At You! > 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & > The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book > > ?Tell me, what will you do > with your one wild and precious life?? > - Mary Oliver > Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: > http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html > Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com > Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com > ******************************************************************* > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School > of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list > administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Mon Nov 9 14:37:00 2009 From: lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au (Lionel Boxer) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:37:00 +1100 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) ofBusiness? Message-ID: <4AF9262C020000AF0003AFF4@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> They all go to work to get paid. If they like the place - if there is a balance of social and ecological responsiblity - they will be less likely to leave for another job. If there is no triple bottom line balance they will leave for a better paid job. I work for a business with a good triple bottom line balance and I will likely never leave. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> sherene zolno 10/11/09 8:13 AM >>> I would say that the life force of business is the sense of self-worth, hope and capability each member of the business is able to experience--an expresssion of their creativity and aliveness. I will be talk a bit more about this during my online presentation at the conference. Appreciative Leading: seeing the way to a healthy world. I will be presenting the Model for a Healthy World, based on our research into appreciative leadership. Come join me! Sherene Zolno On 11/9/09 11:47 AM, "Bruce Elkin" wrote: > Before there was money, there was still business. > > At the heart of early business ? and perhaps, of business yet to come ? was > sharing and serving: helping each other. > > Cheers! > Bruce > ********************************************************************* > BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? > With Whatever Life Throws At You! > 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & > The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book > > ?Tell me, what will you do > with your one wild and precious life?? > - Mary Oliver > Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: > http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html > Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com > Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com > ******************************************************************* > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School > of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list > administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From rdavies at rtpcompany.com Mon Nov 9 14:47:00 2009 From: rdavies at rtpcompany.com (Roger Davies) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 15:47:00 -0600 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana)of Business? In-Reply-To: <4AF90B23020000AF0003AFD5@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> References: <4AF90B23020000AF0003AFD5@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Message-ID: <6E6D8CE0D1DB46EFBEE5E7AADC70EBEE@winona.rtpco.local> Hi Lionel, I'd recommend EF Schumacher's 'Small is Beautiful' with regard to your question also. My original e-mail contained more explanation but got very long so this is an abridged version. If one looks at business as being wholly driven by money then it is doomed to failure. If it is driven by money it will seek only to maximize profit by maximizing productivity. Whichever route one takes to that fewer people within the more expensive wage nations will become involved in manufacturing. As agriculture and manufacturing are the only sectors that generate real cash everyone else is essentially paid for by their activities. So fewer and fewer people work to support an ever increasing dependant population. 'Progress' in that direction is driven by third party share ownership (ownership by people not involved in the business on a day to day basis). Their motive is purely return on capital, wholly money driven. Money flows to where it is MOST CRAVED. Now consider business as fulfilling a social need. It does so by allowing the trading of necessary and specialist skills. We do that in more ways than just using money but money is the lifeblood of this trading in a business sense. In this case though the business is focused on keeping money flowing to where it is MOST NEEDED. Such a business environment would look very different to the one we have today and would be demonstrating a large amount of compassion rather than competition. For it to work there would be almost exclusively employee/local community ownership and no third party stock ownership (and no stock market!). Money is not the life force in this case it is only a necessary component of the system. The life force is really the need to share skills and knowledge. It's worth considering how this also parallels our notions of power and strength. In current business monetary wealth is power as it enables those who have it to control those who need it. In the second case the community has power but over what? Only over its own decisions and longevity. The question can be re-framed to 'Does an organization exist as a means for a few to distribute control over the many or for the whole to exchange power within itself'? Which model works best? Roger -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 1:42 PM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana)of Business? Money is the life force of business. One may argue this, but if you dig deeply, if it is anything other than money then the organisation is something other than a business, which is perhaps directs to a more important question. That is, what should a business be for it to best serve humanity and the ecology, which is what John Elkington's triple bottom line / sustainability is all about. I explored this a bit without the aid of AI in my PhD using another social constructionist theory, Positioning Theory. See http://intergon.net/phd Triple bottom line is one thing, but traditional business is about money. However, it appears that everything in business is reduced to money. Even when we start dealing with the ecology, we reduce it to cabon trading, which in my opinion is a severe cop-out. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> "Sachin Chavan" 10/11/09 2:37 AM >>> Money/profits? It is more akin to blood of business (transfer mechanism). Products and services? But they change. Employees and other stakeholders? They sound like organs/parts. What makes all these alive? Mission/purpose? It is closer to its Dharma. So then, what is the Prana (life force) of business? What keeps it going? What heals it? What enriches it? ? ? Regards, Sachin _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From rdavies at rtpcompany.com Mon Nov 9 15:13:09 2009 From: rdavies at rtpcompany.com (Roger Davies) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:13:09 -0600 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? In-Reply-To: <4AF9262C020000AF0003AFF4@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> References: <4AF9262C020000AF0003AFF4@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Message-ID: <02DCB9F32DE74FB7A70A5001A0F7B5D7@winona.rtpco.local> I'd rather put it that 'They all get paid for going to work' That's not the same as 'They all go to work to get paid'. We do much more than that. In fact if the only reason we go to work is to get paid we're usually moving one fairly soon after reaching that point. I'm with Sherene and Bruce on this one, at a deep level we go to work to contribute something and feel satisfied that we made a good contribution. I'm also of a mind that in trying to quantify such things we actually devalue them. There will be indirect, measurable benefits just like we can measure heart rate or blood pressure to tell us about our health. Our health is much more than a bunch of measurements though. If you did a big study and found that an Appreciative conversation contained x number of y words would that mean that any conversation with that quota of those words would be appreciative? I doubt it. Measurement, though valuable can also be deceiving, especially when one tries to apply it to dynamic systems. In many , many businesses the output of everyone is reduced to a few measurements and if you don't meet your target you aren't a good enough employee. That's one way businesses unwittingly act to disengage their workforce. Roger -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 3:37 PM To: bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? They all go to work to get paid. If they like the place - if there is a balance of social and ecological responsiblity - they will be less likely to leave for another job. If there is no triple bottom line balance they will leave for a better paid job. I work for a business with a good triple bottom line balance and I will likely never leave. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> sherene zolno 10/11/09 8:13 AM >>> I would say that the life force of business is the sense of self-worth, hope and capability each member of the business is able to experience--an expresssion of their creativity and aliveness. I will be talk a bit more about this during my online presentation at the conference. Appreciative Leading: seeing the way to a healthy world. I will be presenting the Model for a Healthy World, based on our research into appreciative leadership. Come join me! Sherene Zolno On 11/9/09 11:47 AM, "Bruce Elkin" wrote: > Before there was money, there was still business. > > At the heart of early business ? and perhaps, of business yet to come > ? was > sharing and serving: helping each other. > > Cheers! > Bruce > ********************************************************************* > BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? > With Whatever Life Throws At You! > 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & > The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book > > ?Tell me, what will you do > with your one wild and precious life?? > - Mary Oliver > Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: > http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html > Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com > Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com > ******************************************************************* > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School > of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list > administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From stephanie at brainhygiene.com Mon Nov 9 16:29:01 2009 From: stephanie at brainhygiene.com (Stephanie) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:29:01 -0700 Subject: [Ailist] Chaos, Complexity, and Public Policy: Excellent interview of Irene Sanders Message-ID: <3318DAF1-8272-4190-8DB1-BC92F244801C@brainhygiene.com> http://westallen.typepad.com/idealawg/2009/11/chaos-complexity-and-public-policy-interview-of-.html Stephanie ???????????????????????????????????? Stephanie West Allen, JD http://www.brainsonpurpose.com http://www.idealawg.net Denver, CO USA From wsw at saizhoo.com Mon Nov 9 16:32:56 2009 From: wsw at saizhoo.com (Scott Wolf) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:32:56 +1000 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? In-Reply-To: <02DCB9F32DE74FB7A70A5001A0F7B5D7@winona.rtpco.local> References: <4AF9262C020000AF0003AFF4@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> <02DCB9F32DE74FB7A70A5001A0F7B5D7@winona.rtpco.local> Message-ID: <003501ca6194$f94e9010$ebebb030$@com> Roger - You remind me of an e.e. cummings line which I have used (sparingly) with some of my engineering clients, who often operate as if anything that matters is measurable: "While you and i have lips and voices which are for kissing and to sing with who cares if some oneyed son for a bitch invents an instrument to measure Spring with?" -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Roger Davies Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:13 AM To: 'Lionel Boxer'; bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? I'd rather put it that 'They all get paid for going to work' That's not the same as 'They all go to work to get paid'. We do much more than that. In fact if the only reason we go to work is to get paid we're usually moving one fairly soon after reaching that point. I'm with Sherene and Bruce on this one, at a deep level we go to work to contribute something and feel satisfied that we made a good contribution. I'm also of a mind that in trying to quantify such things we actually devalue them. There will be indirect, measurable benefits just like we can measure heart rate or blood pressure to tell us about our health. Our health is much more than a bunch of measurements though. If you did a big study and found that an Appreciative conversation contained x number of y words would that mean that any conversation with that quota of those words would be appreciative? I doubt it. Measurement, though valuable can also be deceiving, especially when one tries to apply it to dynamic systems. In many , many businesses the output of everyone is reduced to a few measurements and if you don't meet your target you aren't a good enough employee. That's one way businesses unwittingly act to disengage their workforce. Roger -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 3:37 PM To: bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? They all go to work to get paid. If they like the place - if there is a balance of social and ecological responsiblity - they will be less likely to leave for another job. If there is no triple bottom line balance they will leave for a better paid job. I work for a business with a good triple bottom line balance and I will likely never leave. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> sherene zolno 10/11/09 8:13 AM >>> I would say that the life force of business is the sense of self-worth, hope and capability each member of the business is able to experience--an expresssion of their creativity and aliveness. I will be talk a bit more about this during my online presentation at the conference. Appreciative Leading: seeing the way to a healthy world. I will be presenting the Model for a Healthy World, based on our research into appreciative leadership. Come join me! Sherene Zolno On 11/9/09 11:47 AM, "Bruce Elkin" wrote: > Before there was money, there was still business. > > At the heart of early business ? and perhaps, of business yet to come > ? was > sharing and serving: helping each other. > > Cheers! > Bruce > ********************************************************************* > BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? > With Whatever Life Throws At You! > 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & > The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book > > ?Tell me, what will you do > with your one wild and precious life?? > - Mary Oliver > Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: > http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html > Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com > Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com > ******************************************************************* > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School > of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list > administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Mon Nov 9 16:50:10 2009 From: lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au (Lionel Boxer) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:50:10 +1100 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana)of Business? Message-ID: <4AF94562020000AF0003B017@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Unless AI can make a difference then we are all doomed to failure. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> "Roger Davies" 10/11/09 8:50 AM >>> If one looks at business as being wholly driven by money then it is doomed to failure. From lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Mon Nov 9 16:48:44 2009 From: lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au (Lionel Boxer) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:48:44 +1100 Subject: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? Message-ID: <4AF9450D020000AF0003B00B@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Exactly, but that is what happens. Accountants create dollar values for everything and now we have carbon trading. Meaningless measurement that results in something with a money value that will become traded like shares. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> "Roger Davies" 10/11/09 10:12 AM >>> I'm also of a mind that in trying to quantify such things we actually devalue them. There will be indirect, measurable benefits just like we can measure heart rate or blood pressure to tell us about our health. Our health is much more than a bunch of measurements though. If you did a big study and found that an Appreciative conversation contained x number of y words would that mean that any conversation with that quota of those words would be appreciative? I doubt it. Measurement, though valuable can also be deceiving, especially when one tries to apply it to dynamic systems. In many , many businesses the output of everyone is reduced to a few measurements and if you don't meet your target you aren't a good enough employee. That's one way businesses unwittingly act to disengage their workforce. Roger From robvoyle at voyle.com Mon Nov 9 17:43:44 2009 From: robvoyle at voyle.com (Rob Voyle) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:43:44 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) ofBusiness? In-Reply-To: <4AF9262C020000AF0003AFF4@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> References: <4AF9262C020000AF0003AFF4@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Message-ID: <4AF846C0.11230.1CAB789F@robvoyle.voyle.com> Hi Lionel I think "they all go to work to get paid" is a radical oversimplification. Research shows that money is a "hygeine" factor you need a certain amount to ward off misery, but no amount will bring satisfaction or happiness. Satisfaction comes from participating in what is life-giving. You may work hard and get tired but sleep with a sense of satisfaction. Others may work hard become exhausted but have no satisfaction. The first has been engaged in something that is life- giving, the other was being strip-mined. Think of the time you worked the hardest, perhaps writing your dissertation. did you do that for money or for our own or someone's approval? Did you get your dissertation just to make money or was there something else involved? Rob On 10 Nov 2009 at 8:37, Lionel Boxer wrote: > They all go to work to get paid. If they like the place - if there > is a > balance of social and ecological responsiblity - they will be less > likely to leave for another job. If there is no triple bottom > line > balance they will leave for a better paid job. > > I work for a business with a good triple bottom line balance and I > will > likely never leave. From cwhitneysanchez at gmail.com Tue Nov 10 00:49:12 2009 From: cwhitneysanchez at gmail.com (Christine Whitney Sanchez) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:49:12 -0700 Subject: [Ailist] Harvard's very popular course on justice now available to you online In-Reply-To: <3A4438AE-7989-4508-A098-7BA6BB4C2716@brainhygiene.com> References: <3A4438AE-7989-4508-A098-7BA6BB4C2716@brainhygiene.com> Message-ID: <2CF75881-B5AA-409B-AF91-198251BBAAFE@gmail.com> Incredible resource, Stephanie. Thanks from me and all those I will pass this to. Christine Christine Whitney Sanchez Collaborative Wisdom & Strategy 480.759.0262 www.christinewhitneysanchez.com Skype: christinewhitneysanchez http://www.facebook.com/ChristineWhitneySanchez On Nov 9, 2009, at 1:15 PM, Stephanie wrote: > > http://westallen.typepad.com/idealawg/2009/11/harvards-very-popular-course-on-justice-now.html > > Stephanie > > > > ???????????????????????????????????? > Stephanie West Allen, JD > http://www.brainsonpurpose.com > http://www.idealawg.net > Denver, CO USA > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David > Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain > is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From rdavies at rtpcompany.com Tue Nov 10 06:41:34 2009 From: rdavies at rtpcompany.com (Roger Davies) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 07:41:34 -0600 Subject: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vitalenergy/Prana) ofBusiness? In-Reply-To: <4AF9450D020000AF0003B00B@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> References: <4AF9450D020000AF0003B00B@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Message-ID: <933BC3D487CB4A6F8B9317311830AF14@winona.rtpco.local> One of the biggest and most widespread errors that I have seen in my 25 years in industry is the idea that cost is the opposite of value. Once we get that notion out of our collective business psyche we will be able to start to build again. Much of this comes from an incomplete translation of Lean Manufacturing from Japan to the West. The original focus was not just on cost but that became the major focus in the West. One of the downsides that I have found in trying to change mindsets is that we are often forced to couch things in terms that accountants understand and can present to executives. In doing so much of their meaning is lost. Being cynical my definition of an accountant is 'one who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing'. Also that great 'fad' of Six Sigma is really just a method of getting engineers to speak in a language that accountants can understand. Good engineers have been using statistical evaluation for decades because they needed to to solve problems. They just weren't compelled to account for every dollar of their savings. The downside now is that we're supposed to be able to calculate the outcome of everything before we even start it. Of course that kills the one thing many businesses crave, innovation. The answers are not difficult they just don't translate into the current accepted language of business. Maybe that's what we need first, a new common language. Roger -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 5:49 PM To: bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; rdavies at rtpcompany.com; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vitalenergy/Prana) ofBusiness? Exactly, but that is what happens. Accountants create dollar values for everything and now we have carbon trading. Meaningless measurement that results in something with a money value that will become traded like shares. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> "Roger Davies" 10/11/09 10:12 AM >>> I'm also of a mind that in trying to quantify such things we actually devalue them. There will be indirect, measurable benefits just like we can measure heart rate or blood pressure to tell us about our health. Our health is much more than a bunch of measurements though. If you did a big study and found that an Appreciative conversation contained x number of y words would that mean that any conversation with that quota of those words would be appreciative? I doubt it. Measurement, though valuable can also be deceiving, especially when one tries to apply it to dynamic systems. In many , many businesses the output of everyone is reduced to a few measurements and if you don't meet your target you aren't a good enough employee. That's one way businesses unwittingly act to disengage their workforce. Roger _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From cheri.torres at gmail.com Tue Nov 10 06:54:52 2009 From: cheri.torres at gmail.com (Cheri Torres) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:54:52 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For more on this theme read Be the Solution by John Mackey and Michael Strong or visit their effort to restore our economy through conscious capitalism, which has financial profit as only 1 of 5 purposes for being in business: www.flowidealism.org. Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 9, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Bruce Elkin wrote: > Before there was money, there was still business. > > At the heart of early business ? and perhaps, of business yet to > come ? was > sharing and serving: helping each other. > > Cheers! > Bruce > ********************************************************************* > BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? > With Whatever Life Throws At You! > 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & > The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book > > ?Tell me, what will you do > with your one wild and precious life?? > - Mary Oliver > Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: > http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html > Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com > Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com > ******************************************************************* > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David > Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain > is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From cheri.torres at gmail.com Tue Nov 10 07:21:23 2009 From: cheri.torres at gmail.com (Cheri Torres) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:21:23 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? In-Reply-To: <4AF9450D020000AF0003B00B@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> References: <4AF9450D020000AF0003B00B@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Message-ID: To voice the other side, putting a measurable value on that which is valuable enables an economic system to actually factor in its value into costs and pricing. Money and measurement are not the enemy, they are simply tools. I believe the fall of our current system is a result of our failing to realize that money (and measurement )are not the end goals but merely the means for helping us know if we are adding value and staying aligned with our broader purposeful goals, respectively. When people have to pay a significant price to pollute (because we value clean air) they will seek ways to decrease that cost or eliminate it. Seems to me that if we stop making people wrong and instead look at how the system encourages behavior we can then begin to change the system so that people naturally choose what is "right" and "good" (like not polluting). There is so little purpose in judging and so much to be gained by pondering what kinds of regulations, costs, and measures might actually lead us to once again value "all our brothers and sisters in nature". Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 9, 2009, at 6:48 PM, Lionel Boxer wrote: > Exactly, but that is what happens. Accountants create dollar values > for everything and now we have carbon trading. Meaningless > measurement that results in something with a money value that will > become traded like shares. > > Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 > Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au > Graduate School of Business > my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" > now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>>> "Roger Davies" 10/11/09 10:12 AM >>> > > I'm also of a mind that in trying to quantify such things we actually > devalue them. There will be indirect, measurable benefits just like > we can > measure heart rate or blood pressure to tell us about our health. > Our health > is much more than a bunch of measurements though. If you did a big > study and > found that an Appreciative conversation contained x number of y > words would > that mean that any conversation with that quota of those words would > be > appreciative? I doubt it. Measurement, though valuable can also be > deceiving, especially when one tries to apply it to dynamic systems. > In many > , many businesses the output of everyone is reduced to a few > measurements > and if you don't meet your target you aren't a good enough employee. > That's > one way businesses unwittingly act to disengage their workforce. > > Roger > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David > Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain > is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From mail at sachinchavan.com Tue Nov 10 07:31:12 2009 From: mail at sachinchavan.com (Sachin Chavan) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:01:12 +0530 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nothing much new in there, unfortunately. What's the common currency to represent all the stakeholders (that includes the future generations and other plant/animal species)? ? ? Sachin _____ From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] Sent: 10 November 2009 07:25 PM To: Bruce Elkin Cc: Lionel Boxer; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; Sachin Chavan Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? For more on this theme read Be the Solution by John Mackey and Michael Strong or visit their effort to restore our economy through conscious capitalism, which has financial profit as only 1 of 5 purposes for being in business: www.flowidealism.org. Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 9, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Bruce Elkin wrote: Before there was money, there was still business. At the heart of early business ? and perhaps, of business yet to come ? was sharing and serving: helping each other. Cheers! Bruce ********************************************************************* BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? With Whatever Life Throws At You! 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book ?Tell me, what will you do with your one wild and precious life?? - Mary Oliver Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com ******************************************************************* _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From mail at sachinchavan.com Tue Nov 10 07:37:03 2009 From: mail at sachinchavan.com (Sachin Chavan) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:07:03 +0530 Subject: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Would it take anything less than a transformation of the collective consciousness? Would mechanisms such as carbon credit etc. rooted in the same paradigms (revenue - cost = profit) as the ones that landed us in today's mess resulting from over 100 years of limited view of ourselves? Sachin -----Original Message----- From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] Sent: 10 November 2009 07:51 PM To: Lionel Boxer Cc: bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; rdavies at rtpcompany.com; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? To voice the other side, putting a measurable value on that which is valuable enables an economic system to actually factor in its value into costs and pricing. Money and measurement are not the enemy, they are simply tools. I believe the fall of our current system is a result of our failing to realize that money (and measurement )are not the end goals but merely the means for helping us know if we are adding value and staying aligned with our broader purposeful goals, respectively. When people have to pay a significant price to pollute (because we value clean air) they will seek ways to decrease that cost or eliminate it. Seems to me that if we stop making people wrong and instead look at how the system encourages behavior we can then begin to change the system so that people naturally choose what is "right" and "good" (like not polluting). There is so little purpose in judging and so much to be gained by pondering what kinds of regulations, costs, and measures might actually lead us to once again value "all our brothers and sisters in nature". Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 9, 2009, at 6:48 PM, Lionel Boxer wrote: > Exactly, but that is what happens. Accountants create dollar values > for everything and now we have carbon trading. Meaningless > measurement that results in something with a money value that will > become traded like shares. > > Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT > University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my > "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" > now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>>> "Roger Davies" 10/11/09 10:12 AM >>> > > I'm also of a mind that in trying to quantify such things we actually > devalue them. There will be indirect, measurable benefits just like we > can measure heart rate or blood pressure to tell us about our health. > Our health > is much more than a bunch of measurements though. If you did a big > study and found that an Appreciative conversation contained x number > of y words would that mean that any conversation with that quota of > those words would be appreciative? I doubt it. Measurement, though > valuable can also be deceiving, especially when one tries to apply it > to dynamic systems. > In many > , many businesses the output of everyone is reduced to a few > measurements and if you don't meet your target you aren't a good > enough employee. > That's > one way businesses unwittingly act to disengage their workforce. > > Roger > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles > School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the > list administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From mail at sachinchavan.com Tue Nov 10 07:46:59 2009 From: mail at sachinchavan.com (Sachin Chavan) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:16:59 +0530 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: <02DCB9F32DE74FB7A70A5001A0F7B5D7@winona.rtpco.local> Message-ID: <8AC0F7A47F074590A8B78509AD93758E@SachinNotebook> Dear all, Thanks for your spirited participation in this discussion. I am gaining insights through the responses and a purposeful disussion has resulted. Is the group collective coming to 'Value' as the Life force of business? If business is seen as a system within the mega-system of the universe, money/profits is only a pale shadow to measure the value... and limited by its nature. The big question is, can there be a single unit of measuring value, which could mean different things to the different constituents (stakeholders) depending on where they see their benefit... which depends on who they see themselves as (Self-discovery) in the first place! Would raising the collective consciousness level of the world be a common good? If not, what else can it be? And if yes, then are we at an inflexion point in evolution where the further journey is involution? Where we start discovering ourselves at a deeper level of inter-beingness, from the current peak of individuation of the Self? Regards, Sachin Sachin Chavan 91-22-25308355 91-9820316390 www.sachinchavan.com -----Original Message----- From: Roger Davies [mailto:rdavies at rtpcompany.com] Sent: 10 November 2009 03:43 AM To: 'Lionel Boxer'; bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: RE: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? I'd rather put it that 'They all get paid for going to work' That's not the same as 'They all go to work to get paid'. We do much more than that. In fact if the only reason we go to work is to get paid we're usually moving one fairly soon after reaching that point. I'm with Sherene and Bruce on this one, at a deep level we go to work to contribute something and feel satisfied that we made a good contribution. I'm also of a mind that in trying to quantify such things we actually devalue them. There will be indirect, measurable benefits just like we can measure heart rate or blood pressure to tell us about our health. Our health is much more than a bunch of measurements though. If you did a big study and found that an Appreciative conversation contained x number of y words would that mean that any conversation with that quota of those words would be appreciative? I doubt it. Measurement, though valuable can also be deceiving, especially when one tries to apply it to dynamic systems. In many , many businesses the output of everyone is reduced to a few measurements and if you don't meet your target you aren't a good enough employee. That's one way businesses unwittingly act to disengage their workforce. Roger -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 3:37 PM To: bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? They all go to work to get paid. If they like the place - if there is a balance of social and ecological responsiblity - they will be less likely to leave for another job. If there is no triple bottom line balance they will leave for a better paid job. I work for a business with a good triple bottom line balance and I will likely never leave. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> sherene zolno 10/11/09 8:13 AM >>> I would say that the life force of business is the sense of self-worth, hope and capability each member of the business is able to experience--an expresssion of their creativity and aliveness. I will be talk a bit more about this during my online presentation at the conference. Appreciative Leading: seeing the way to a healthy world. I will be presenting the Model for a Healthy World, based on our research into appreciative leadership. Come join me! Sherene Zolno On 11/9/09 11:47 AM, "Bruce Elkin" wrote: > Before there was money, there was still business. > > At the heart of early business ? and perhaps, of business yet to come > ? was > sharing and serving: helping each other. > > Cheers! > Bruce > ********************************************************************* > BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? > With Whatever Life Throws At You! > 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & > The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book > > ?Tell me, what will you do > with your one wild and precious life?? > - Mary Oliver > Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: > http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html > Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com > Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com > ******************************************************************* > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School > of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list > administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From cheri.torres at gmail.com Tue Nov 10 07:48:00 2009 From: cheri.torres at gmail.com (Cheri Torres) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:48:00 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8AFCCC1B-453C-48E1-82C7-E219FCBAD281@gmail.com> Sachin, Have you read Be the Solution? It is not that it is all new information but rather a shift to focusing on what is of value for all in volved. I am certain these guys don't have all the answers, they'd be the first to claim that I would guess, but they are making an effort to stimulate our thinking towards figuring out how to place a value on those future generations and plant/animal species or create structures that enable everyone to naturally choose a positive future. Do you have ideas? Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 10, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Sachin Chavan wrote: > Nothing much new in there, unfortunately. What's the common currency > to represent all the stakeholders (that includes the future > generations and other plant/animal species)? > ? ? > Sachin > > > > From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] > Sent: 10 November 2009 07:25 PM > To: Bruce Elkin > Cc: Lionel Boxer; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; Sachin Chavan > Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) > of Business? > > For more on this theme read Be the Solution by John Mackey and > Michael Strong or visit their effort to restore our economy through > conscious capitalism, which has financial profit as only 1 of 5 > purposes for being in business: www.flowidealism.org. > > Cheri > > Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. > > Collaborative by Design > 135 Westwood Place > Asheville, NC 28806 > 828-225-5088 > > > > > On Nov 9, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Bruce Elkin wrote: > >> Before there was money, there was still business. >> >> At the heart of early business ? and perhaps, of business yet to >> come ? was >> sharing and serving: helping each other. >> >> Cheers! >> Bruce >> ********************************************************************* >> BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? >> With Whatever Life Throws At You! >> 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & >> The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book >> >> ?Tell me, what will you do >> with your one wild and precious life?? >> - Mary Oliver >> Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: >> http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html >> Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com >> Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com >> ******************************************************************* >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David >> Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain >> is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: >> http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist > From mail at sachinchavan.com Tue Nov 10 08:10:48 2009 From: mail at sachinchavan.com (Sachin Chavan) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:40:48 +0530 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: <8AFCCC1B-453C-48E1-82C7-E219FCBAD281@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0A2170820A464DA7B9A4921D65705924@SachinNotebook> Cheri, I shared some of my current thoughts on the issue in response to couple of other mails over the last hour or so. I appreciate the folks' efforts to stimulate our thinking on the issue, and I should not have sounded condenscending about it, as I probably did. I see Gandhian economics (which partly inspired Schumacher) as a potent place to search for some solutions. There is some similarity with 'Be the solution' approach in that wide-spread entrepreneurship (leading to more local & contextual businesses) is advocated. Gandhi though, was no business consultant, and knew his vision wouldn't turn into reality till the people of the world evolved in their social consciousness... and spent a lifetime working towards it. I haven't read the book, but took the other 'or' mentioned in your mail... to read up their site on 'Consious capitalism'. Probably its not an equal 'or' and I would need to read the book to gain better understanding of their proposals. A thought to leave you with. Would a large chemicals firm like say DuPont or Dow produce the chemicals they did, if their CEOs had to drink water from the stream in which the factories (located somewhere in the third world) let out the effluents, or have their personal backyards double up for its solid waste disposal? Now, does that say anything about why 'Small is beautiful'? I think it does. ? Regards, Sachin _____ From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] Sent: 10 November 2009 08:18 PM To: mail at sachinchavan.com Cc: 'Bruce Elkin'; 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? Sachin, Have you read Be the Solution? It is not that it is all new information but rather a shift to focusing on what is of value for all in volved. I am certain these guys don't have all the answers, they'd be the first to claim that I would guess, but they are making an effort to stimulate our thinking towards figuring out how to place a value on those future generations and plant/animal species or create structures that enable everyone to naturally choose a positive future. Do you have ideas? Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 10, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Sachin Chavan wrote: Nothing much new in there, unfortunately. What's the common currency to represent all the stakeholders (that includes the future generations and other plant/animal species)? ? ? Sachin _____ From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] Sent: 10 November 2009 07:25 PM To: Bruce Elkin Cc: Lionel Boxer; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; Sachin Chavan Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? For more on this theme read Be the Solution by John Mackey and Michael Strong or visit their effort to restore our economy through conscious capitalism, which has financial profit as only 1 of 5 purposes for being in business: www.flowidealism.org. Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 9, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Bruce Elkin wrote: Before there was money, there was still business. At the heart of early business ? and perhaps, of business yet to come ? was sharing and serving: helping each other. Cheers! Bruce ********************************************************************* BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? With Whatever Life Throws At You! 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book ?Tell me, what will you do with your one wild and precious life?? - Mary Oliver Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com ******************************************************************* _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From HBury at bw.edu Tue Nov 10 08:19:35 2009 From: HBury at bw.edu (Harry Bury) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:19:35 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: <4AF90B23020000AF0003AFD5@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> References: <4AF90B23020000AF0003AFD5@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Message-ID: <99B8B02EA419154EBCA842938B28F7605F61D24BFF@EXCHMB.bw.edu> Dear Lionel, Simply put, business needs money to exist, but money is not the reason it exists. Simiilar to breathing. I need to breathe to live, but I do not live to breathe. Personally, I need money to live, but I do not live for money. The secret I found is " I live to be fulfilled and the path to fulfillment is giving and the more significant the giving, the more fulfilling." At the business level, "the more significant the goods and/or services we provide, the more meaningful and gratifying our existence." Appreciatively Your, Harry J. Bury Chair, Doctoral Program in Business Administration (DBA) Graduate School of Commerce, Burapha University Silom, Bangkok 10500 Thailand AND Professor Emeritus Baldwin Wallace College Berea, OH 44017 USA 440-826-2395 Office 440-336-2801 Mobile Explore Dr. Bury's website http://homepages.bw.edu/~hbury ________________________________________ From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer [lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au] Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 2:41 PM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? Money is the life force of business. One may argue this, but if you dig deeply, if it is anything other than money then the organisation is something other than a business, which is perhaps directs to a more important question. That is, what should a business be for it to best serve humanity and the ecology, which is what John Elkington's triple bottom line / sustainability is all about. I explored this a bit without the aid of AI in my PhD using another social constructionist theory, Positioning Theory. See http://intergon.net/phd Triple bottom line is one thing, but traditional business is about money. However, it appears that everything in business is reduced to money. Even when we start dealing with the ecology, we reduce it to cabon trading, which in my opinion is a severe cop-out. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> "Sachin Chavan" 10/11/09 2:37 AM >>> Money/profits? It is more akin to blood of business (transfer mechanism). Products and services? But they change. Employees and other stakeholders? They sound like organs/parts. What makes all these alive? Mission/purpose? It is closer to its Dharma. So then, what is the Prana (life force) of business? What keeps it going? What heals it? What enriches it? ? ? Regards, Sachin _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From cheri.torres at gmail.com Tue Nov 10 08:30:34 2009 From: cheri.torres at gmail.com (Cheri Torres) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:30:34 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: <0A2170820A464DA7B9A4921D65705924@SachinNotebook> References: <0A2170820A464DA7B9A4921D65705924@SachinNotebook> Message-ID: Sachin, It is with not only incredible disbelief, but confusion that I have to answer your parting question with a "Yes, some of those executives would." I used to live just south of Knoxville TN. OakRidge National Labs lies just north of Knoxville. The execs from OakRridge buried nuclear waste in their own back yard, which fed the streams that ran beside and beneath the homes they lived in with their children. Tennessee Valley authority allows the lakes and air to fill with pollution, which gets trapped in the Cumberland Valley, poisoning the water and air all around them--where they live and where their children play. Denial is a profound capacity for individuals who live in a deficit-based, fear-based world. This is perhaps one of the profound gifts of AI--a shift towards possibility, abundance, both/and and neither/nor. Small is beautiful and large can be beautiful as well--how do we blend the beauty and benefit of what we know? Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 10, 2009, at 10:10 AM, Sachin Chavan wrote: > Cheri, > > I shared some of my current thoughts on the issue in response to > couple of other mails over the last hour or so. > > I appreciate the folks' efforts to stimulate our thinking on the > issue, and I should not have sounded condenscending about it, as I > probably did. > > I see Gandhian economics (which partly inspired Schumacher) as a > potent place to search for some solutions. There is some similarity > with 'Be the solution' approach in that wide-spread entrepreneurship > (leading to more local & contextual businesses) is advocated. Gandhi > though, was no business consultant, and knew his vision wouldn't > turn into reality till the people of the world evolved in their > social consciousness... and spent a lifetime working towards it. > > I haven't read the book, but took the other 'or' mentioned in your > mail... to read up their site on 'Consious capitalism'. Probably its > not an equal 'or' and I would need to read the book to gain better > understanding of their proposals. > > A thought to leave you with. Would a large chemicals firm like say > DuPont or Dow produce the chemicals they did, if their CEOs had to > drink water from the stream in which the factories (located > somewhere in the third world) let out the effluents, or have their > personal backyards double up for its solid waste disposal? Now, does > that say anything about why 'Small is beautiful'? I think it does. > ? > Regards, > Sachin > > > From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] > Sent: 10 November 2009 08:18 PM > To: mail at sachinchavan.com > Cc: 'Bruce Elkin'; 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu > Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) > of Business? > > Sachin, > > Have you read Be the Solution? > > It is not that it is all new information but rather a shift to > focusing on what is of value for all in volved. I am certain these > guys don't have all the answers, they'd be the first to claim that I > would guess, but they are making an effort to stimulate our thinking > towards figuring out how to place a value on those future > generations and plant/animal species or create structures that > enable everyone to naturally choose a positive future. > > Do you have ideas? > > Cheri > > > Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. > > Collaborative by Design > 135 Westwood Place > Asheville, NC 28806 > 828-225-5088 > > > > > On Nov 10, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Sachin Chavan wrote: > >> Nothing much new in there, unfortunately. What's the common >> currency to represent all the stakeholders (that includes the >> future generations and other plant/animal species)? >> ? ? >> Sachin >> >> >> >> From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] >> Sent: 10 November 2009 07:25 PM >> To: Bruce Elkin >> Cc: Lionel Boxer; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; Sachin Chavan >> Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) >> of Business? >> >> For more on this theme read Be the Solution by John Mackey and >> Michael Strong or visit their effort to restore our economy through >> conscious capitalism, which has financial profit as only 1 of 5 >> purposes for being in business: www.flowidealism.org. >> >> Cheri >> >> Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. >> >> Collaborative by Design >> 135 Westwood Place >> Asheville, NC 28806 >> 828-225-5088 >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 9, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Bruce Elkin wrote: >> >>> Before there was money, there was still business. >>> >>> At the heart of early business ? and perhaps, of business yet to >>> come ? was >>> sharing and serving: helping each other. >>> >>> Cheers! >>> Bruce >>> ********************************************************************* >>> BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? >>> With Whatever Life Throws At You! >>> 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & >>> The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book >>> >>> ?Tell me, what will you do >>> with your one wild and precious life?? >>> - Mary Oliver >>> Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: >>> http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html >>> Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com >>> Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com >>> ******************************************************************* >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David >>> Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain >>> is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: >>> http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist >> > From mail at sachinchavan.com Tue Nov 10 08:35:10 2009 From: mail at sachinchavan.com (Sachin Chavan) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:05:10 +0530 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: <99B8B02EA419154EBCA842938B28F7605F61D24BFF@EXCHMB.bw.edu> Message-ID: <8B1B56BB91C94889B389D2EF244FF473@SachinNotebook> Isn't it wonderful that this list has people from all across the world? Harry, your personal philosophy is thought-provoking. The fulfilment in 'giving' - extending beyond oneself - is a significant experiential learning which can transform us. From personal experience I see the other side, the suffering accumulated through my self-centredness. I mentioned Gandhian economics in a previous mail. Wikipedia has a brief write-up on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhian_economics Regards, Sachin -----Original Message----- From: Harry Bury [mailto:HBury at bw.edu] Sent: 10 November 2009 08:50 PM To: Lionel Boxer; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: RE: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) ofBusiness? Dear Lionel, Simply put, business needs money to exist, but money is not the reason it exists. Simiilar to breathing. I need to breathe to live, but I do not live to breathe. Personally, I need money to live, but I do not live for money. The secret I found is " I live to be fulfilled and the path to fulfillment is giving and the more significant the giving, the more fulfilling." At the business level, "the more significant the goods and/or services we provide, the more meaningful and gratifying our existence." Appreciatively Your, Harry J. Bury Chair, Doctoral Program in Business Administration (DBA) Graduate School of Commerce, Burapha University Silom, Bangkok 10500 Thailand AND Professor Emeritus Baldwin Wallace College Berea, OH 44017 USA 440-826-2395 Office 440-336-2801 Mobile Explore Dr. Bury's website http://homepages.bw.edu/~hbury ________________________________________ From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer [lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au] Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 2:41 PM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? Money is the life force of business. One may argue this, but if you dig deeply, if it is anything other than money then the organisation is something other than a business, which is perhaps directs to a more important question. That is, what should a business be for it to best serve humanity and the ecology, which is what John Elkington's triple bottom line / sustainability is all about. I explored this a bit without the aid of AI in my PhD using another social constructionist theory, Positioning Theory. See http://intergon.net/phd Triple bottom line is one thing, but traditional business is about money. However, it appears that everything in business is reduced to money. Even when we start dealing with the ecology, we reduce it to cabon trading, which in my opinion is a severe cop-out. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> "Sachin Chavan" 10/11/09 2:37 AM >>> Money/profits? It is more akin to blood of business (transfer mechanism). Products and services? But they change. Employees and other stakeholders? They sound like organs/parts. What makes all these alive? Mission/purpose? It is closer to its Dharma. So then, what is the Prana (life force) of business? What keeps it going? What heals it? What enriches it? ? ? Regards, Sachin _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From bruce at bruceelkin.com Tue Nov 10 08:43:05 2009 From: bruce at bruceelkin.com (Bruce Elkin) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 07:43:05 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: <0A2170820A464DA7B9A4921D65705924@SachinNotebook> Message-ID: Has anyone taken a look at the ?Slow Money? movement? They may have some ideas about the life force of business. Short video and principles at http://www.slowmoneyalliance.org/ Cheers! Bruce ********************************************************************* BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? With Whatever Life Throws At You! 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book ?Tell me, what will you do with your one wild and precious life?? - Mary Oliver Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com ******************************************************************* From rdavies at rtpcompany.com Tue Nov 10 10:34:43 2009 From: rdavies at rtpcompany.com (Roger Davies) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:34:43 -0600 Subject: [Ailist] FW: Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? Message-ID: <117EAAFF08D84D969FAD0537E29C1B03@winona.rtpco.local> -----Original Message----- From: Roger Davies [mailto:rdavies at rtpcompany.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:33 AM To: 'Cheri Torres'; 'Lionel Boxer' Cc: 'bruce at bruceelkin.com'; 'coachpb at comcast.net'; 'mail at sachinchavan.com' Subject: RE: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? Hi Cheri, I believe that is exactly the trap we fall into because we do not have good enough definitions of the words that we all use. True, money is the lifeblood of trade and as you correctly say is not its purpose. Measurement is also vital because without it we have no idea where we are and where we are headed. It would be wrong to assume that measurements necessarily lead to accurate prediction in dynamic, complex systems like the environment and the stock exchange. Where the trap lies is that it is not necessary to put a 'significant price' on the value of the environment to know that polluting it is not a good thing to do. Especially since we cannot predict how it will react. What we are doing is putting a price onto a moral issue. If we do so we can then equate the cost of remediation to the cost of the damage done and if the cost of remediation is too high we won't do it even though we know we should. We then get into an argument about the true cost of the environmental damage (which is virtually impossible to do) rather than the value of the environment. Once we've 'priced (not valued) the environment we will then get into a system of punitives or incentives the purpose of which is to direct moral behavior. Are we not human enough to know our own morals and be responsible for them? It should absolutely not be necessary to incentivize an organization or individual to look after the environment but in the space of two paragraphs we're there. To do so admits that we do not already know and enjoy it's intrinsic worth. Did the native American tribes require incentives to do so? No they had a moral belief system that already held the environment as sacred. They would not tell us that they had some fantastic measurements and an economic system that helped them protect and respect it. It's okay to be wrong about some things, recognize the fact and do what we can to change. It's really wrong to know that one is doing wrong and hide one's complicity behind measurements and systems. We have some severe environmental damage because we have an imbalanced 'for profit' driven economic model. The way to change that and many other current ills is to recognize that we've been wrong and need a new and sustainable model. Roger -----Original Message----- From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:21 AM To: Lionel Boxer Cc: bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; rdavies at rtpcompany.com; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? To voice the other side, putting a measurable value on that which is valuable enables an economic system to actually factor in its value into costs and pricing. Money and measurement are not the enemy, they are simply tools. I believe the fall of our current system is a result of our failing to realize that money (and measurement )are not the end goals but merely the means for helping us know if we are adding value and staying aligned with our broader purposeful goals, respectively. When people have to pay a significant price to pollute (because we value clean air) they will seek ways to decrease that cost or eliminate it. Seems to me that if we stop making people wrong and instead look at how the system encourages behavior we can then begin to change the system so that people naturally choose what is "right" and "good" (like not polluting). There is so little purpose in judging and so much to be gained by pondering what kinds of regulations, costs, and measures might actually lead us to once again value "all our brothers and sisters in nature". Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 9, 2009, at 6:48 PM, Lionel Boxer wrote: > Exactly, but that is what happens. Accountants create dollar values > for everything and now we have carbon trading. Meaningless > measurement that results in something with a money value that will > become traded like shares. > > Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT > University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my > "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" > now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>>> "Roger Davies" 10/11/09 10:12 AM >>> > > I'm also of a mind that in trying to quantify such things we actually > devalue them. There will be indirect, measurable benefits just like we > can measure heart rate or blood pressure to tell us about our health. > Our health > is much more than a bunch of measurements though. If you did a big > study and found that an Appreciative conversation contained x number > of y words would that mean that any conversation with that quota of > those words would be appreciative? I doubt it. Measurement, though > valuable can also be deceiving, especially when one tries to apply it > to dynamic systems. > In many > , many businesses the output of everyone is reduced to a few > measurements and if you don't meet your target you aren't a good > enough employee. > That's > one way businesses unwittingly act to disengage their workforce. > > Roger > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles > School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the > list administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From mail at sachinchavan.com Tue Nov 10 11:23:35 2009 From: mail at sachinchavan.com (Sachin Chavan) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:53:35 +0530 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am stunned, Cherie. ?Sachin _____ From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] Sent: 10 November 2009 09:01 PM To: mail at sachinchavan.com Cc: 'Bruce Elkin'; 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? Sachin, It is with not only incredible disbelief, but confusion that I have to answer your parting question with a "Yes, some of those executives would." I used to live just south of Knoxville TN. OakRidge National Labs lies just north of Knoxville. The execs from OakRridge buried nuclear waste in their own back yard, which fed the streams that ran beside and beneath the homes they lived in with their children. Tennessee Valley authority allows the lakes and air to fill with pollution, which gets trapped in the Cumberland Valley, poisoning the water and air all around them--where they live and where their children play. Denial is a profound capacity for individuals who live in a deficit-based, fear-based world. This is perhaps one of the profound gifts of AI--a shift towards possibility, abundance, both/and and neither/nor. Small is beautiful and large can be beautiful as well--how do we blend the beauty and benefit of what we know? Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 10, 2009, at 10:10 AM, Sachin Chavan wrote: Cheri, I shared some of my current thoughts on the issue in response to couple of other mails over the last hour or so. I appreciate the folks' efforts to stimulate our thinking on the issue, and I should not have sounded condenscending about it, as I probably did. I see Gandhian economics (which partly inspired Schumacher) as a potent place to search for some solutions. There is some similarity with 'Be the solution' approach in that wide-spread entrepreneurship (leading to more local & contextual businesses) is advocated. Gandhi though, was no business consultant, and knew his vision wouldn't turn into reality till the people of the world evolved in their social consciousness... and spent a lifetime working towards it. I haven't read the book, but took the other 'or' mentioned in your mail... to read up their site on 'Consious capitalism'. Probably its not an equal 'or' and I would need to read the book to gain better understanding of their proposals. A thought to leave you with. Would a large chemicals firm like say DuPont or Dow produce the chemicals they did, if their CEOs had to drink water from the stream in which the factories (located somewhere in the third world) let out the effluents, or have their personal backyards double up for its solid waste disposal? Now, does that say anything about why 'Small is beautiful'? I think it does. ? Regards, Sachin _____ From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] Sent: 10 November 2009 08:18 PM To: mail at sachinchavan.com Cc: 'Bruce Elkin'; 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? Sachin, Have you read Be the Solution? It is not that it is all new information but rather a shift to focusing on what is of value for all in volved. I am certain these guys don't have all the answers, they'd be the first to claim that I would guess, but they are making an effort to stimulate our thinking towards figuring out how to place a value on those future generations and plant/animal species or create structures that enable everyone to naturally choose a positive future. Do you have ideas? Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 10, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Sachin Chavan wrote: Nothing much new in there, unfortunately. What's the common currency to represent all the stakeholders (that includes the future generations and other plant/animal species)? ? ? Sachin _____ From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] Sent: 10 November 2009 07:25 PM To: Bruce Elkin Cc: Lionel Boxer; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; Sachin Chavan Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? For more on this theme read Be the Solution by John Mackey and Michael Strong or visit their effort to restore our economy through conscious capitalism, which has financial profit as only 1 of 5 purposes for being in business: www.flowidealism.org. Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 9, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Bruce Elkin wrote: Before there was money, there was still business. At the heart of early business ? and perhaps, of business yet to come ? was sharing and serving: helping each other. Cheers! Bruce ********************************************************************* BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? With Whatever Life Throws At You! 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book ?Tell me, what will you do with your one wild and precious life?? - Mary Oliver Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com ******************************************************************* _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From cheri.torres at gmail.com Tue Nov 10 11:52:16 2009 From: cheri.torres at gmail.com (Cheri Torres) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:52:16 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: <8AC0F7A47F074590A8B78509AD93758E@SachinNotebook> References: <8AC0F7A47F074590A8B78509AD93758E@SachinNotebook> Message-ID: <5FAE33A1-DB83-460F-BCC9-B715082CB330@gmail.com> Sachan, I love your insight about value as the life force of business. The stakeholder centered approach that John Mackey describes in Be the Solution is about creating value in five arenas--where no one area gains value at the expense of the others. The areas are: 1. Employees 2. Suppliers 3. Customers 4. Investors 5. Community and Environment Profit is the value stream for investors, but it is only one of five and should not be maximized at the expense of value to the other four. With regards to your other questions, I'm not clear what you are actually asking or suggesting. Could you please clarify what you mean by the following and how it relates to the issue of business: > Would raising the collective consciousness level of the world be a > common > good? If not, what else can it be? And if yes, then are we at an > inflexion > point in evolution where the further journey is involution? Where we > start > discovering ourselves at a deeper level of inter-beingness, from the > current > peak of individuation of the Self? Thanks, Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 10, 2009, at 9:46 AM, Sachin Chavan wrote: > > Dear all, > > Thanks for your spirited participation in this discussion. I am > gaining > insights through the responses and a purposeful disussion has > resulted. > > Is the group collective coming to 'Value' as the Life force of > business? > > If business is seen as a system within the mega-system of the > universe, > money/profits is only a pale shadow to measure the value... and > limited by > its nature. The big question is, can there be a single unit of > measuring > value, which could mean different things to the different constituents > (stakeholders) depending on where they see their benefit... which > depends on > who they see themselves as (Self-discovery) in the first place! > > Would raising the collective consciousness level of the world be a > common > good? If not, what else can it be? And if yes, then are we at an > inflexion > point in evolution where the further journey is involution? Where we > start > discovering ourselves at a deeper level of inter-beingness, from the > current > peak of individuation of the Self? > > Regards, > Sachin > > > Sachin Chavan > 91-22-25308355 > 91-9820316390 > www.sachinchavan.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Davies [mailto:rdavies at rtpcompany.com] > Sent: 10 November 2009 03:43 AM > To: 'Lionel Boxer'; bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; > ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com > Subject: RE: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) > ofBusiness? > > I'd rather put it that 'They all get paid for going to work' That's > not the > same as 'They all go to work to get paid'. We do much more than > that. In > fact if the only reason we go to work is to get paid we're usually > moving > one fairly soon after reaching that point. I'm with Sherene and > Bruce on > this one, at a deep level we go to work to contribute something and > feel > satisfied that we made a good contribution. > > I'm also of a mind that in trying to quantify such things we actually > devalue them. There will be indirect, measurable benefits just like > we can > measure heart rate or blood pressure to tell us about our health. > Our health > is much more than a bunch of measurements though. If you did a big > study and > found that an Appreciative conversation contained x number of y > words would > that mean that any conversation with that quota of those words would > be > appreciative? I doubt it. Measurement, though valuable can also be > deceiving, especially when one tries to apply it to dynamic systems. > In many > , many businesses the output of everyone is reduced to a few > measurements > and if you don't meet your target you aren't a good enough employee. > That's > one way businesses unwittingly act to disengage their workforce. > > Roger > > -----Original Message----- > From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu > [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Lionel > Boxer > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 3:37 PM > To: bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; > ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com > Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) > ofBusiness? > > They all go to work to get paid. If they like the place - if there > is a > balance of social and ecological responsiblity - they will be less > likely to > leave for another job. If there is no triple bottom line balance > they will > leave for a better paid job. > > I work for a business with a good triple bottom line balance and I > will > likely never leave. > > Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT > University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my > "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" > now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>>> sherene zolno 10/11/09 8:13 AM >>> > I would say that the life force of business is the sense of self- > worth, hope > and capability each member of the business is able to experience--an > expresssion of their creativity and aliveness. > > I will be talk a bit more about this during my online presentation > at the > conference. Appreciative Leading: seeing the way to a healthy > world. I > will be presenting the Model for a Healthy World, based on our > research into > appreciative leadership. > > Come join me! > > Sherene Zolno > > > On 11/9/09 11:47 AM, "Bruce Elkin" wrote: > >> Before there was money, there was still business. >> >> At the heart of early business ? and perhaps, of business yet to come >> ? > was >> sharing and serving: helping each other. >> >> Cheers! >> Bruce >> ********************************************************************* >> BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? >> With Whatever Life Throws At You! >> 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & >> The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book >> >> ?Tell me, what will you do >> with your one wild and precious life?? >> - Mary Oliver >> Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: >> http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html >> Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com >> Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com >> ******************************************************************* >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David >> Eccles > School >> of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list >> administrator. For subscription information, go to: >> http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist > > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles > School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the > list > administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles > School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the > list > administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David > Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain > is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From bruce at bruceelkin.com Tue Nov 10 12:06:33 2009 From: bruce at bruceelkin.com (Bruce Elkin) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:06:33 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/ Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: <8B1B56BB91C94889B389D2EF244FF473@SachinNotebook> Message-ID: Folks, The E.F. Schumacher Society provides a free pdf of the Schumacher?s seminal piece on Buddhist Economics at : http://www.smallisbeautiful.org/buddhist_economics.html This is a short, but engaging piece that is very relevant to this discussion, and to doing business in the world today. I recommend it highly. Cheers! Bruce ********************************************************************* BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? With Whatever Life Throws At You! 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book ?Tell me, what will you do with your one wild and precious life?? - Mary Oliver Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com ******************************************************************* From mail at sachinchavan.com Tue Nov 10 12:07:03 2009 From: mail at sachinchavan.com (Sachin Chavan) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:37:03 +0530 Subject: [Ailist] Harvard's very popular course on justice now availableto you online In-Reply-To: <2CF75881-B5AA-409B-AF91-198251BBAAFE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B1C58570CA0452DB3EB857F34BC0905@SachinNotebook> I second Christine in thanking Stephanie. It's a great resource... I went through the first two sessions and it raises some key questions in you. Also, provides a framework to work through them. Regards, Sachin -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Christine Whitney Sanchez Sent: 10 November 2009 01:19 PM To: Stephanie Cc: AI list Subject: Re: [Ailist] Harvard's very popular course on justice now availableto you online Incredible resource, Stephanie. Thanks from me and all those I will pass this to. Christine Christine Whitney Sanchez Collaborative Wisdom & Strategy 480.759.0262 www.christinewhitneysanchez.com Skype: christinewhitneysanchez http://www.facebook.com/ChristineWhitneySanchez On Nov 9, 2009, at 1:15 PM, Stephanie wrote: > > http://westallen.typepad.com/idealawg/2009/11/harvards-very-popular-co > urse-on-justice-now.html > > Stephanie > > > > .................................... > Stephanie West Allen, JD > http://www.brainsonpurpose.com > http://www.idealawg.net > Denver, CO USA > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles > School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the > list administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From mail at sachinchavan.com Tue Nov 10 12:16:33 2009 From: mail at sachinchavan.com (Sachin Chavan) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:46:33 +0530 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: <5FAE33A1-DB83-460F-BCC9-B715082CB330@gmail.com> Message-ID: <285BEA9F772D43DBA88530516988E1B4@SachinNotebook> Cheri, apologies if that sounded quite inane. I am trying to ask the larger purpose behind evolution (if there is any). Sure man's or his business's purpose cannot be in contrast to the purpose of the universe! ? ? Regards, Sachin _____ From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] Sent: 11 November 2009 12:22 AM To: mail at sachinchavan.com Cc: 'Roger Davies'; 'Lionel Boxer'; bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of Business? Sachan, I love your insight about value as the life force of business. The stakeholder centered approach that John Mackey describes in Be the Solution is about creating value in five arenas--where no one area gains value at the expense of the others. The areas are: 1. Employees 2. Suppliers 3. Customers 4. Investors 5. Community and Environment Profit is the value stream for investors, but it is only one of five and should not be maximized at the expense of value to the other four. With regards to your other questions, I'm not clear what you are actually asking or suggesting. Could you please clarify what you mean by the following and how it relates to the issue of business: Would raising the collective consciousness level of the world be a common good? If not, what else can it be? And if yes, then are we at an inflexion point in evolution where the further journey is involution? Where we start discovering ourselves at a deeper level of inter-beingness, from the current peak of individuation of the Self? Thanks, Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 10, 2009, at 9:46 AM, Sachin Chavan wrote: Dear all, Thanks for your spirited participation in this discussion. I am gaining insights through the responses and a purposeful disussion has resulted. Is the group collective coming to 'Value' as the Life force of business? If business is seen as a system within the mega-system of the universe, money/profits is only a pale shadow to measure the value... and limited by its nature. The big question is, can there be a single unit of measuring value, which could mean different things to the different constituents (stakeholders) depending on where they see their benefit... which depends on who they see themselves as (Self-discovery) in the first place! Would raising the collective consciousness level of the world be a common good? If not, what else can it be? And if yes, then are we at an inflexion point in evolution where the further journey is involution? Where we start discovering ourselves at a deeper level of inter-beingness, from the current peak of individuation of the Self? Regards, Sachin Sachin Chavan 91-22-25308355 91-9820316390 www.sachinchavan.com -----Original Message----- From: Roger Davies [mailto:rdavies at rtpcompany.com] Sent: 10 November 2009 03:43 AM To: 'Lionel Boxer'; bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: RE: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? I'd rather put it that 'They all get paid for going to work' That's not the same as 'They all go to work to get paid'. We do much more than that. In fact if the only reason we go to work is to get paid we're usually moving one fairly soon after reaching that point. I'm with Sherene and Bruce on this one, at a deep level we go to work to contribute something and feel satisfied that we made a good contribution. I'm also of a mind that in trying to quantify such things we actually devalue them. There will be indirect, measurable benefits just like we can measure heart rate or blood pressure to tell us about our health. Our health is much more than a bunch of measurements though. If you did a big study and found that an Appreciative conversation contained x number of y words would that mean that any conversation with that quota of those words would be appreciative? I doubt it. Measurement, though valuable can also be deceiving, especially when one tries to apply it to dynamic systems. In many , many businesses the output of everyone is reduced to a few measurements and if you don't meet your target you aren't a good enough employee. That's one way businesses unwittingly act to disengage their workforce. Roger -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 3:37 PM To: bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? They all go to work to get paid. If they like the place - if there is a balance of social and ecological responsiblity - they will be less likely to leave for another job. If there is no triple bottom line balance they will leave for a better paid job. I work for a business with a good triple bottom line balance and I will likely never leave. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net sherene zolno 10/11/09 8:13 AM >>> I would say that the life force of business is the sense of self-worth, hope and capability each member of the business is able to experience--an expresssion of their creativity and aliveness. I will be talk a bit more about this during my online presentation at the conference. Appreciative Leading: seeing the way to a healthy world. I will be presenting the Model for a Healthy World, based on our research into appreciative leadership. Come join me! Sherene Zolno On 11/9/09 11:47 AM, "Bruce Elkin" wrote: Before there was money, there was still business. At the heart of early business ? and perhaps, of business yet to come ? was sharing and serving: helping each other. Cheers! Bruce ********************************************************************* BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? With Whatever Life Throws At You! 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book ?Tell me, what will you do with your one wild and precious life?? - Mary Oliver Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com ******************************************************************* _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From cheri.torres at gmail.com Tue Nov 10 12:58:16 2009 From: cheri.torres at gmail.com (Cheri Torres) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:58:16 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: <285BEA9F772D43DBA88530516988E1B4@SachinNotebook> References: <285BEA9F772D43DBA88530516988E1B4@SachinNotebook> Message-ID: Sachin, I just finished reading Spontaneous Evolution by Bruce Lipton; have you read it? They actually make quite a cogent argument for what is unfolding at this moment in evolutionary terms. Also creates a lot of hope! Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 10, 2009, at 2:16 PM, Sachin Chavan wrote: > Cheri, apologies if that sounded quite inane. I am trying to ask the > larger purpose behind evolution (if there is any). Sure man's or his > business's purpose cannot be in contrast to the purpose of the > universe! > > ? ? > Regards, > Sachin > > > > From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] > Sent: 11 November 2009 12:22 AM > To: mail at sachinchavan.com > Cc: 'Roger Davies'; 'Lionel Boxer'; bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net > ; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu > Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of > Business? > > Sachan, > > I love your insight about value as the life force of business. The > stakeholder centered approach that John Mackey describes in Be the > Solution is about creating value in five arenas--where no one area > gains value at the expense of the others. The areas are: > 1. Employees > 2. Suppliers > 3. Customers > 4. Investors > 5. Community and Environment > > Profit is the value stream for investors, but it is only one of five > and should not be maximized at the expense of value to the other four. > > With regards to your other questions, I'm not clear what you are > actually asking or suggesting. Could you please clarify what you > mean by the following and how it relates to the issue of business: >> Would raising the collective consciousness level of the world be a >> common >> good? If not, what else can it be? And if yes, then are we at an >> inflexion >> point in evolution where the further journey is involution? Where >> we start >> discovering ourselves at a deeper level of inter-beingness, from >> the current >> peak of individuation of the Self? > > Thanks, > Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. > > Collaborative by Design > 135 Westwood Place > Asheville, NC 28806 > 828-225-5088 > > > > > On Nov 10, 2009, at 9:46 AM, Sachin Chavan wrote: > >> >> Dear all, >> >> Thanks for your spirited participation in this discussion. I am >> gaining >> insights through the responses and a purposeful disussion has >> resulted. >> >> Is the group collective coming to 'Value' as the Life force of >> business? >> >> If business is seen as a system within the mega-system of the >> universe, >> money/profits is only a pale shadow to measure the value... and >> limited by >> its nature. The big question is, can there be a single unit of >> measuring >> value, which could mean different things to the different >> constituents >> (stakeholders) depending on where they see their benefit... which >> depends on >> who they see themselves as (Self-discovery) in the first place! >> >> Would raising the collective consciousness level of the world be a >> common >> good? If not, what else can it be? And if yes, then are we at an >> inflexion >> point in evolution where the further journey is involution? Where >> we start >> discovering ourselves at a deeper level of inter-beingness, from >> the current >> peak of individuation of the Self? >> >> Regards, >> Sachin >> >> >> Sachin Chavan >> 91-22-25308355 >> 91-9820316390 >> www.sachinchavan.com >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Roger Davies [mailto:rdavies at rtpcompany.com] >> Sent: 10 November 2009 03:43 AM >> To: 'Lionel Boxer'; bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; >> ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com >> Subject: RE: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) >> ofBusiness? >> >> I'd rather put it that 'They all get paid for going to work' That's >> not the >> same as 'They all go to work to get paid'. We do much more than >> that. In >> fact if the only reason we go to work is to get paid we're usually >> moving >> one fairly soon after reaching that point. I'm with Sherene and >> Bruce on >> this one, at a deep level we go to work to contribute something and >> feel >> satisfied that we made a good contribution. >> >> I'm also of a mind that in trying to quantify such things we actually >> devalue them. There will be indirect, measurable benefits just like >> we can >> measure heart rate or blood pressure to tell us about our health. >> Our health >> is much more than a bunch of measurements though. If you did a big >> study and >> found that an Appreciative conversation contained x number of y >> words would >> that mean that any conversation with that quota of those words >> would be >> appreciative? I doubt it. Measurement, though valuable can also be >> deceiving, especially when one tries to apply it to dynamic >> systems. In many >> , many businesses the output of everyone is reduced to a few >> measurements >> and if you don't meet your target you aren't a good enough >> employee. That's >> one way businesses unwittingly act to disengage their workforce. >> >> Roger >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu >> [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Lionel >> Boxer >> Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 3:37 PM >> To: bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; >> ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com >> Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) >> ofBusiness? >> >> They all go to work to get paid. If they like the place - if there >> is a >> balance of social and ecological responsiblity - they will be less >> likely to >> leave for another job. If there is no triple bottom line balance >> they will >> leave for a better paid job. >> >> I work for a business with a good triple bottom line balance and I >> will >> likely never leave. >> >> Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT >> University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my >> "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" >> now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>>>> sherene zolno 10/11/09 8:13 AM >>> >> I would say that the life force of business is the sense of self- >> worth, hope >> and capability each member of the business is able to experience--an >> expresssion of their creativity and aliveness. >> >> I will be talk a bit more about this during my online presentation >> at the >> conference. Appreciative Leading: seeing the way to a healthy >> world. I >> will be presenting the Model for a Healthy World, based on our >> research into >> appreciative leadership. >> >> Come join me! >> >> Sherene Zolno >> >> >> On 11/9/09 11:47 AM, "Bruce Elkin" wrote: >> >>> Before there was money, there was still business. >>> >>> At the heart of early business ? and perhaps, of business yet to >>> come >>> ? >> was >>> sharing and serving: helping each other. >>> >>> Cheers! >>> Bruce >>> ********************************************************************* >>> BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? >>> With Whatever Life Throws At You! >>> 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & >>> The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book >>> >>> ?Tell me, what will you do >>> with your one wild and precious life?? >>> - Mary Oliver >>> Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: >>> http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html >>> Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com >>> Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com >>> ******************************************************************* >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David >>> Eccles >> School >>> of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list >>> administrator. For subscription information, go to: >>> http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David >> Eccles >> School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the >> list >> administrator. For subscription information, go to: >> http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David >> Eccles >> School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the >> list >> administrator. For subscription information, go to: >> http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David >> Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain >> is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: >> http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist > From mail at sachinchavan.com Tue Nov 10 13:36:19 2009 From: mail at sachinchavan.com (Sachin Chavan) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:06:19 +0530 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <88C65F2E7B3D48298AC7278B2C6B9F81@SachinNotebook> Thanks for the suggestion, Cheri. Yes, it seems to be about the next shift in collective consciousness of mankind. I don't know if its 2012 as they (and a lot of people) say... but given the accelarating pace of change, I wouldn't bet on it not happening in 3 years time. Who knows! Sri Aurobindo, the great Indian Yogi of early 20th century has written about this evolution... His ideas of superconsciousness are worth reading as well. http://www.amazon.com/Life-Divine-Sri-Aurobindo/dp/8170588456/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257884660&sr=1-2 Regards, Sachin Sachin Chavan 91-22-25308355 91-9820316390 www.sachinchavan.com -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Cheri Torres Sent: 11 November 2009 01:28 AM To: mail at sachinchavan.com Cc: 'Roger Davies'; bruce at bruceelkin.com; 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? Sachin, I just finished reading Spontaneous Evolution by Bruce Lipton; have you read it? They actually make quite a cogent argument for what is unfolding at this moment in evolutionary terms. Also creates a lot of hope! Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 10, 2009, at 2:16 PM, Sachin Chavan wrote: > Cheri, apologies if that sounded quite inane. I am trying to ask the > larger purpose behind evolution (if there is any). Sure man's or his > business's purpose cannot be in contrast to the purpose of the > universe! > > ? ? > Regards, > Sachin > > > > From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] > Sent: 11 November 2009 12:22 AM > To: mail at sachinchavan.com > Cc: 'Roger Davies'; 'Lionel Boxer'; bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net > ; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu > Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of > Business? > > Sachan, > > I love your insight about value as the life force of business. The > stakeholder centered approach that John Mackey describes in Be the > Solution is about creating value in five arenas--where no one area > gains value at the expense of the others. The areas are: > 1. Employees > 2. Suppliers > 3. Customers > 4. Investors > 5. Community and Environment > > Profit is the value stream for investors, but it is only one of five > and should not be maximized at the expense of value to the other four. > > With regards to your other questions, I'm not clear what you are > actually asking or suggesting. Could you please clarify what you > mean by the following and how it relates to the issue of business: >> Would raising the collective consciousness level of the world be a >> common >> good? If not, what else can it be? And if yes, then are we at an >> inflexion >> point in evolution where the further journey is involution? Where >> we start >> discovering ourselves at a deeper level of inter-beingness, from >> the current >> peak of individuation of the Self? > > Thanks, > Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. > > Collaborative by Design > 135 Westwood Place > Asheville, NC 28806 > 828-225-5088 > > > > > On Nov 10, 2009, at 9:46 AM, Sachin Chavan wrote: > >> >> Dear all, >> >> Thanks for your spirited participation in this discussion. I am >> gaining >> insights through the responses and a purposeful disussion has >> resulted. >> >> Is the group collective coming to 'Value' as the Life force of >> business? >> >> If business is seen as a system within the mega-system of the >> universe, >> money/profits is only a pale shadow to measure the value... and >> limited by >> its nature. The big question is, can there be a single unit of >> measuring >> value, which could mean different things to the different >> constituents >> (stakeholders) depending on where they see their benefit... which >> depends on >> who they see themselves as (Self-discovery) in the first place! >> >> Would raising the collective consciousness level of the world be a >> common >> good? If not, what else can it be? And if yes, then are we at an >> inflexion >> point in evolution where the further journey is involution? Where >> we start >> discovering ourselves at a deeper level of inter-beingness, from >> the current >> peak of individuation of the Self? >> >> Regards, >> Sachin >> >> >> Sachin Chavan >> 91-22-25308355 >> 91-9820316390 >> www.sachinchavan.com >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Roger Davies [mailto:rdavies at rtpcompany.com] >> Sent: 10 November 2009 03:43 AM >> To: 'Lionel Boxer'; bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; >> ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com >> Subject: RE: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) >> ofBusiness? >> >> I'd rather put it that 'They all get paid for going to work' That's >> not the >> same as 'They all go to work to get paid'. We do much more than >> that. In >> fact if the only reason we go to work is to get paid we're usually >> moving >> one fairly soon after reaching that point. I'm with Sherene and >> Bruce on >> this one, at a deep level we go to work to contribute something and >> feel >> satisfied that we made a good contribution. >> >> I'm also of a mind that in trying to quantify such things we actually >> devalue them. There will be indirect, measurable benefits just like >> we can >> measure heart rate or blood pressure to tell us about our health. >> Our health >> is much more than a bunch of measurements though. If you did a big >> study and >> found that an Appreciative conversation contained x number of y >> words would >> that mean that any conversation with that quota of those words >> would be >> appreciative? I doubt it. Measurement, though valuable can also be >> deceiving, especially when one tries to apply it to dynamic >> systems. In many >> , many businesses the output of everyone is reduced to a few >> measurements >> and if you don't meet your target you aren't a good enough >> employee. That's >> one way businesses unwittingly act to disengage their workforce. >> >> Roger >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu >> [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Lionel >> Boxer >> Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 3:37 PM >> To: bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; >> ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com >> Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) >> ofBusiness? >> >> They all go to work to get paid. If they like the place - if there >> is a >> balance of social and ecological responsiblity - they will be less >> likely to >> leave for another job. If there is no triple bottom line balance >> they will >> leave for a better paid job. >> >> I work for a business with a good triple bottom line balance and I >> will >> likely never leave. >> >> Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT >> University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my >> "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" >> now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>>>> sherene zolno 10/11/09 8:13 AM >>> >> I would say that the life force of business is the sense of self- >> worth, hope >> and capability each member of the business is able to experience--an >> expresssion of their creativity and aliveness. >> >> I will be talk a bit more about this during my online presentation >> at the >> conference. Appreciative Leading: seeing the way to a healthy >> world. I >> will be presenting the Model for a Healthy World, based on our >> research into >> appreciative leadership. >> >> Come join me! >> >> Sherene Zolno >> >> >> On 11/9/09 11:47 AM, "Bruce Elkin" wrote: >> >>> Before there was money, there was still business. >>> >>> At the heart of early business ? and perhaps, of business yet to >>> come >>> ? >> was >>> sharing and serving: helping each other. >>> >>> Cheers! >>> Bruce >>> ********************************************************************* >>> BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? >>> With Whatever Life Throws At You! >>> 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & >>> The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book >>> >>> ?Tell me, what will you do >>> with your one wild and precious life?? >>> - Mary Oliver >>> Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: >>> http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html >>> Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com >>> Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com >>> ******************************************************************* >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David >>> Eccles >> School >>> of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list >>> administrator. For subscription information, go to: >>> http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David >> Eccles >> School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the >> list >> administrator. For subscription information, go to: >> http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David >> Eccles >> School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the >> list >> administrator. For subscription information, go to: >> http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David >> Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain >> is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: >> http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist > _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From robvoyle at voyle.com Tue Nov 10 14:29:30 2009 From: robvoyle at voyle.com (Rob Voyle) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:29:30 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: <5FAE33A1-DB83-460F-BCC9-B715082CB330@gmail.com> References: <8AC0F7A47F074590A8B78509AD93758E@SachinNotebook>, <5FAE33A1-DB83-460F-BCC9-B715082CB330@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AF96ABA.30215.21201CFF@robvoyle.voyle.com> Hi Cheri What would happen if we saw profit as simply a measure of efficiency in manifesting our purpose ie. offering something of value to the world and not as something to be sought in and of itself. Investors would be invited to invest in the offering of something of value rather than simply investing for profit. That's not to say that they would not make a profit, but the profit is secondary to the deeper purpose and value the company offers to the community. It is interesting to reflect on Krafts attempt to take over Cadburys. While in similar industries their core values are worlds apart. Cadburys is committed to fair trade coca, Krafts rejects fair trade as an intrusion into free trade for the purpose of making a profit. A merger of these two companies will do violence to each other's values and potentially destroy that which is life giving to the company. Rob Robert J. Voyle, Psy.D. Director, Clergy Leadership Institute For Coaching and Training in Appreciative Inquiry Author: Core Elements of the Appreciative Way http://www.clergyleadership.com/ 503-647-2378 or 503-647-2382 On 10 Nov 2009 at 13:52, Cheri Torres wrote: > Sachan, > > I love your insight about value as the life force of business. The > stakeholder centered approach that John Mackey describes in Be the > Solution is about creating value in five arenas--where no one area > gains value at the expense of the others. The areas are: > 1. Employees > 2. Suppliers > 3. Customers > 4. Investors > 5. Community and Environment > > Profit is the value stream for investors, but it is only one of five > and should not be maximized at the expense of value to the other > four. > > With regards to your other questions, I'm not clear what you are > actually asking or suggesting. Could you please clarify what you > mean > by the following and how it relates to the issue of business: > > Would raising the collective consciousness level of the world be a > > common > > good? If not, what else can it be? And if yes, then are we at an > > inflexion > > point in evolution where the further journey is involution? Where > we > > start > > discovering ourselves at a deeper level of inter-beingness, from > the > > current > > peak of individuation of the Self? > 25-5088 > From rdavies at rtpcompany.com Tue Nov 10 15:08:30 2009 From: rdavies at rtpcompany.com (Roger Davies) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:08:30 -0600 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: <4AF96ABA.30215.21201CFF@robvoyle.voyle.com> References: <8AC0F7A47F074590A8B78509AD93758E@SachinNotebook>, <5FAE33A1-DB83-460F-BCC9-B715082CB330@gmail.com> <4AF96ABA.30215.21201CFF@robvoyle.voyle.com> Message-ID: <97CDA131FDF04CB48852F5BC9B62D25D@winona.rtpco.local> Good point Rob, The Cadbury family were very much focused on bettering the lives of their employees. They built the village of Bournville near to the factory in the West Midlands of the UK to house them. They have been profitable and well respected since 1824. Their focus has always been quality, desirable products and care for their employees. I wonder where the Kraft village is? How many businesses these days would consider doing that? After all it's just cost isn't it? Surely there's no value in it? Of course Bournville was built in a time when home ownership was harder to achieve and credit difficult to acquire. ICI, British Steel and many other companies did the same. They saw value in providing stability and security for their workforce. Many of those organizations had several generations of the same family working for them. There are several fairly good sized German companies that are officially charities. They put a good part of their profits into the care of their ex employees. If you worked for them they will look after you in retirement. I'm sure that there are some tax exemptions because of this but compare that with how many US companies have reduced or eliminated benefits for retirees. There are other tried and tested models of business operation in existence. The question is how to make them the norm rather than the exception. Roger -----Original Message----- From: Rob Voyle [mailto:robvoyle at voyle.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:30 PM To: Cheri Torres; 'Roger Davies'; bruce at bruceelkin.com; 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of Business? Hi Cheri What would happen if we saw profit as simply a measure of efficiency in manifesting our purpose ie. offering something of value to the world and not as something to be sought in and of itself. Investors would be invited to invest in the offering of something of value rather than simply investing for profit. That's not to say that they would not make a profit, but the profit is secondary to the deeper purpose and value the company offers to the community. It is interesting to reflect on Krafts attempt to take over Cadburys. While in similar industries their core values are worlds apart. Cadburys is committed to fair trade coca, Krafts rejects fair trade as an intrusion into free trade for the purpose of making a profit. A merger of these two companies will do violence to each other's values and potentially destroy that which is life giving to the company. Rob Robert J. Voyle, Psy.D. Director, Clergy Leadership Institute For Coaching and Training in Appreciative Inquiry Author: Core Elements of the Appreciative Way http://www.clergyleadership.com/ 503-647-2378 or 503-647-2382 On 10 Nov 2009 at 13:52, Cheri Torres wrote: > Sachan, > > I love your insight about value as the life force of business. The > stakeholder centered approach that John Mackey describes in Be the > Solution is about creating value in five arenas--where no one area > gains value at the expense of the others. The areas are: > 1. Employees > 2. Suppliers > 3. Customers > 4. Investors > 5. Community and Environment > > Profit is the value stream for investors, but it is only one of five > and should not be maximized at the expense of value to the other > four. > > With regards to your other questions, I'm not clear what you are > actually asking or suggesting. Could you please clarify what you > mean > by the following and how it relates to the issue of business: > > Would raising the collective consciousness level of the world be a > > common > > good? If not, what else can it be? And if yes, then are we at an > > inflexion > > point in evolution where the further journey is involution? Where > we > > start > > discovering ourselves at a deeper level of inter-beingness, from > the > > current > > peak of individuation of the Self? > 25-5088 > From mail at sachinchavan.com Tue Nov 10 22:18:23 2009 From: mail at sachinchavan.com (Sachin Chavan) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:48:23 +0530 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of Business? - Tata group In-Reply-To: <97CDA131FDF04CB48852F5BC9B62D25D@winona.rtpco.local> Message-ID: The Tata group of companies in India, which is its largest conglomerate comprising 115 companies and over $70 b revenue, was ranked 11th most reputable in the world by the Reputation Institute in 2009. It is 140 years old and the most respected business houses in India. The Tata group is held by charitable trusts, and the chairman of the group (as the previous chairmen, who were all stalwarts in social life) holds almost no personal holding. They are known for their adherence to strong values and business ethics. Just like Boruneville mentioned by Roger, the Tatas have a huge township at Jamshedpur for its employees of the steel company Tata Steel. They have funded and finance many quality research, cultural and educational institutes and was awarded the Carnegie medal of philanthrophy in 2007. Here's the link to their community activities if interested further: http://www.tata.com/ourcommitment/sub_index.aspx?sectid=8UaXnU/ejSw= . They have a Tata index of sustainability for their group companies. It goes to show that profitable business is not necessarily divorced from sustainable, pro-community, ethical business. Regards, Sachin -----Original Message----- From: Roger Davies [mailto:rdavies at rtpcompany.com] Sent: 11 November 2009 03:39 AM To: 'Rob Voyle'; 'Cheri Torres'; bruce at bruceelkin.com; 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: RE: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of Business? Good point Rob, The Cadbury family were very much focused on bettering the lives of their employees. They built the village of Bournville near to the factory in the West Midlands of the UK to house them. They have been profitable and well respected since 1824. Their focus has always been quality, desirable products and care for their employees. I wonder where the Kraft village is? How many businesses these days would consider doing that? After all it's just cost isn't it? Surely there's no value in it? Of course Bournville was built in a time when home ownership was harder to achieve and credit difficult to acquire. ICI, British Steel and many other companies did the same. They saw value in providing stability and security for their workforce. Many of those organizations had several generations of the same family working for them. There are several fairly good sized German companies that are officially charities. They put a good part of their profits into the care of their ex employees. If you worked for them they will look after you in retirement. I'm sure that there are some tax exemptions because of this but compare that with how many US companies have reduced or eliminated benefits for retirees. There are other tried and tested models of business operation in existence. The question is how to make them the norm rather than the exception. Roger -----Original Message----- From: Rob Voyle [mailto:robvoyle at voyle.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:30 PM To: Cheri Torres; 'Roger Davies'; bruce at bruceelkin.com; 'Lionel Boxer'; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of Business? Hi Cheri What would happen if we saw profit as simply a measure of efficiency in manifesting our purpose ie. offering something of value to the world and not as something to be sought in and of itself. Investors would be invited to invest in the offering of something of value rather than simply investing for profit. That's not to say that they would not make a profit, but the profit is secondary to the deeper purpose and value the company offers to the community. It is interesting to reflect on Krafts attempt to take over Cadburys. While in similar industries their core values are worlds apart. Cadburys is committed to fair trade coca, Krafts rejects fair trade as an intrusion into free trade for the purpose of making a profit. A merger of these two companies will do violence to each other's values and potentially destroy that which is life giving to the company. Rob Robert J. Voyle, Psy.D. Director, Clergy Leadership Institute For Coaching and Training in Appreciative Inquiry Author: Core Elements of the Appreciative Way http://www.clergyleadership.com/ 503-647-2378 or 503-647-2382 On 10 Nov 2009 at 13:52, Cheri Torres wrote: > Sachan, > > I love your insight about value as the life force of business. The > stakeholder centered approach that John Mackey describes in Be the > Solution is about creating value in five arenas--where no one area > gains value at the expense of the others. The areas are: > 1. Employees > 2. Suppliers > 3. Customers > 4. Investors > 5. Community and Environment > > Profit is the value stream for investors, but it is only one of five > and should not be maximized at the expense of value to the other four. > > With regards to your other questions, I'm not clear what you are > actually asking or suggesting. Could you please clarify what you mean > by the following and how it relates to the issue of business: > > Would raising the collective consciousness level of the world be a > > common good? If not, what else can it be? And if yes, then are we at > > an inflexion point in evolution where the further journey is > > involution? Where > we > > start > > discovering ourselves at a deeper level of inter-beingness, from > the > > current > > peak of individuation of the Self? > 25-5088 > From lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Tue Nov 10 23:01:47 2009 From: lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au (Lionel Boxer) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:01:47 +1100 Subject: [Ailist] Cadbury, Dr Martans, Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? Message-ID: <4AFAEDFC020000AF0003B121@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> I visited Cadburys in Birmingham and London as well as Dr Martens (Griggs) in 2000 as part of my PhD research. Cadburys were all Quakers, which is important, because none of us are Quakers and we cannot be expected to behave with such moral rectitude. Note below, recent Cadbury practice has been to push chocolate in schools. From: http://intergon.net/phd/phdch2.doc 2.2.2 Quakerism Originally known as the ?Religious Society of Friends?, an assembly of religious enthusiasts was founded in the mid 17th century. Curious onlookers, in mocking the zeal with which members would tremble with enthusiasm, coined the term Quakers. In a show of defiant strength, the assembly took what was intended to be defamatory as their own. Apart from rebellious religious doctrine, the Quakers were convinced that an aggregate of benefits would ensue from both concern for the environment and removal of causes of conflict (Walvin 1997). While their perception of benefits likely placed a low priority on economic performance, it could be implied that that they considered economic stability would better enable spiritual pursuits. In assembling an interpretive framework for the observation of pro-sustainability business leaders, Quarter (2000, p. 175) views some aspects as being derived from Quakerism and notes the direct influence on at least one participant in his research. Cadbury literature explains that, in 1847, two Quaker brothers started Cadbury Brothers of Birmingham. As such, it is founded on principles of social responsibility and environmental ethics congruent with Quakerism. This literature refers to over a hundred years of social and environmental responsibility. Similar to Owen at New Lanark, Cadbury built schools, homes and churches as a service to its employees. What is new, however, is that the company is today looking at corporate citizenship as it applies globally. For example, during floods in Poland, in 1999, Cadbury vans were donated to move people?s furniture and belongings. This was viewed as being good for community cohesion. While Cadbury has been criticized for appearing to sell chocolate to schools, the company?s work with schools is said to be motivated by altruism. Cadbury?s educational partnerships reflect a desire to enable people to have disposable income and a more rewarding lifestyle. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> "Roger Davies" 11/11/09 9:20 AM >>> Good point Rob, The Cadbury family were very much focused on bettering the lives of their employees. They built the village of Bournville near to the factory in the West Midlands of the UK to house them. They have been profitable and well respected since 1824. Their focus has always been quality, desirable products and care for their employees. I wonder where the Kraft village is? From rdavies at rtpcompany.com Wed Nov 11 07:00:46 2009 From: rdavies at rtpcompany.com (Roger Davies) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:00:46 -0600 Subject: [Ailist] Cadbury, Dr Martans, Re: What is the Life Force(Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? In-Reply-To: <4AFAEDFC020000AF0003B121@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> References: <4AFAEDFC020000AF0003B121@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Message-ID: <0414B1F267A1442BBAF5391ACB804C01@winona.rtpco.local> It is also interesting to note that a member of the Cadbury family has always sat on the board of directors. I wonder how much this contributes to keeping their ethic alive and vibrant within their organization. Thanks for the additional information Lionel. Roger -----Original Message----- From: Lionel Boxer [mailto:lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au] Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:02 AM To: bruce at bruceelkin.com; cheri.torres at gmail.com; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; rdavies at rtpcompany.com; mail at sachinchavan.com; robvoyle at voyle.com Subject: Cadbury, Dr Martans, Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force(Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? I visited Cadburys in Birmingham and London as well as Dr Martens (Griggs) in 2000 as part of my PhD research. Cadburys were all Quakers, which is important, because none of us are Quakers and we cannot be expected to behave with such moral rectitude. Note below, recent Cadbury practice has been to push chocolate in schools. From: http://intergon.net/phd/phdch2.doc 2.2.2 Quakerism Originally known as the 'Religious Society of Friends', an assembly of religious enthusiasts was founded in the mid 17th century. Curious onlookers, in mocking the zeal with which members would tremble with enthusiasm, coined the term Quakers. In a show of defiant strength, the assembly took what was intended to be defamatory as their own. Apart from rebellious religious doctrine, the Quakers were convinced that an aggregate of benefits would ensue from both concern for the environment and removal of causes of conflict (Walvin 1997). While their perception of benefits likely placed a low priority on economic performance, it could be implied that that they considered economic stability would better enable spiritual pursuits. In assembling an interpretive framework for the observation of pro-sustainability business leaders, Quarter (2000, p. 175) views some aspects as being derived from Quakerism and notes the direct influence on at least one participant in his research. Cadbury literature explains that, in 1847, two Quaker brothers started Cadbury Brothers of Birmingham. As such, it is founded on principles of social responsibility and environmental ethics congruent with Quakerism. This literature refers to over a hundred years of social and environmental responsibility. Similar to Owen at New Lanark, Cadbury built schools, homes and churches as a service to its employees. What is new, however, is that the company is today looking at corporate citizenship as it applies globally. For example, during floods in Poland, in 1999, Cadbury vans were donated to move people's furniture and belongings. This was viewed as being good for community cohesion. While Cadbury has been criticized for appearing to sell chocolate to schools, the company's work with schools is said to be motivated by altruism. Cadbury's educational partnerships reflect a desire to enable people to have disposable income and a more rewarding lifestyle. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> "Roger Davies" 11/11/09 9:20 AM >>> Good point Rob, The Cadbury family were very much focused on bettering the lives of their employees. They built the village of Bournville near to the factory in the West Midlands of the UK to house them. They have been profitable and well respected since 1824. Their focus has always been quality, desirable products and care for their employees. I wonder where the Kraft village is? From HBury at bw.edu Wed Nov 11 07:38:55 2009 From: HBury at bw.edu (Harry Bury) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:38:55 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] FW: Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? In-Reply-To: <117EAAFF08D84D969FAD0537E29C1B03@winona.rtpco.local> References: <117EAAFF08D84D969FAD0537E29C1B03@winona.rtpco.local> Message-ID: <99B8B02EA419154EBCA842938B28F7605F61D24C07@EXCHMB.bw.edu> Dear Roger, With all due respect, Roger, I do not believe people intend to "do wrong" with the intention of hiding it behind "measurements and systems." Rather, I believe everyone intends to "do right" and then seek to prove their "rightness" with "measurements and sysrems." I never met anyone who gets up in the morning with the intention to "do wrong." Have you? Many do wrong in my eyes because they and I have different value systems, it appears to me. Hence, it gets back to basic questions as Sachin suggests. What do we mean by "the good?" Appreciatively Yours, Harry J. Bury Chair, Doctoral Program in Business Administration (DBA) Graduate School of Commerce, Burapha University Silom, Bangkok 10500 Thailand AND Professor Emeritus Baldwin Wallace College Berea, OH 44017 USA 440-826-2395 Office 440-336-2801 Mobile Explore Dr. Bury's website http://homepages.bw.edu/~hbury ________________________________________ From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Roger Davies [rdavies at rtpcompany.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 12:34 PM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: [Ailist] FW: Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? -----Original Message----- From: Roger Davies [mailto:rdavies at rtpcompany.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:33 AM To: 'Cheri Torres'; 'Lionel Boxer' Cc: 'bruce at bruceelkin.com'; 'coachpb at comcast.net'; 'mail at sachinchavan.com' Subject: RE: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? Hi Cheri, I believe that is exactly the trap we fall into because we do not have good enough definitions of the words that we all use. True, money is the lifeblood of trade and as you correctly say is not its purpose. Measurement is also vital because without it we have no idea where we are and where we are headed. It would be wrong to assume that measurements necessarily lead to accurate prediction in dynamic, complex systems like the environment and the stock exchange. Where the trap lies is that it is not necessary to put a 'significant price' on the value of the environment to know that polluting it is not a good thing to do. Especially since we cannot predict how it will react. What we are doing is putting a price onto a moral issue. If we do so we can then equate the cost of remediation to the cost of the damage done and if the cost of remediation is too high we won't do it even though we know we should. We then get into an argument about the true cost of the environmental damage (which is virtually impossible to do) rather than the value of the environment. Once we've 'priced (not valued) the environment we will then get into a system of punitives or incentives the purpose of which is to direct moral behavior. Are we not human enough to know our own morals and be responsible for them? It should absolutely not be necessary to incentivize an organization or individual to look after the environment but in the space of two paragraphs we're there. To do so admits that we do not already know and enjoy it's intrinsic worth. Did the native American tribes require incentives to do so? No they had a moral belief system that already held the environment as sacred. They would not tell us that they had some fantastic measurements and an economic system that helped them protect and respect it. It's okay to be wrong about some things, recognize the fact and do what we can to change. It's really wrong to know that one is doing wrong and hide one's complicity behind measurements and systems. We have some severe environmental damage because we have an imbalanced 'for profit' driven economic model. The way to change that and many other current ills is to recognize that we've been wrong and need a new and sustainable model. Roger -----Original Message----- From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:21 AM To: Lionel Boxer Cc: bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; rdavies at rtpcompany.com; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? To voice the other side, putting a measurable value on that which is valuable enables an economic system to actually factor in its value into costs and pricing. Money and measurement are not the enemy, they are simply tools. I believe the fall of our current system is a result of our failing to realize that money (and measurement )are not the end goals but merely the means for helping us know if we are adding value and staying aligned with our broader purposeful goals, respectively. When people have to pay a significant price to pollute (because we value clean air) they will seek ways to decrease that cost or eliminate it. Seems to me that if we stop making people wrong and instead look at how the system encourages behavior we can then begin to change the system so that people naturally choose what is "right" and "good" (like not polluting). There is so little purpose in judging and so much to be gained by pondering what kinds of regulations, costs, and measures might actually lead us to once again value "all our brothers and sisters in nature". Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 9, 2009, at 6:48 PM, Lionel Boxer wrote: > Exactly, but that is what happens. Accountants create dollar values > for everything and now we have carbon trading. Meaningless > measurement that results in something with a money value that will > become traded like shares. > > Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT > University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my > "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" > now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>>> "Roger Davies" 10/11/09 10:12 AM >>> > > I'm also of a mind that in trying to quantify such things we actually > devalue them. There will be indirect, measurable benefits just like we > can measure heart rate or blood pressure to tell us about our health. > Our health > is much more than a bunch of measurements though. If you did a big > study and found that an Appreciative conversation contained x number > of y words would that mean that any conversation with that quota of > those words would be appreciative? I doubt it. Measurement, though > valuable can also be deceiving, especially when one tries to apply it > to dynamic systems. > In many > , many businesses the output of everyone is reduced to a few > measurements and if you don't meet your target you aren't a good > enough employee. > That's > one way businesses unwittingly act to disengage their workforce. > > Roger > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles > School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the > list administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From cheri.torres at gmail.com Wed Nov 11 08:34:07 2009 From: cheri.torres at gmail.com (Cheri Torres) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:34:07 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: <4AF96ABA.30215.21201CFF@robvoyle.voyle.com> References: <8AC0F7A47F074590A8B78509AD93758E@SachinNotebook>, <5FAE33A1-DB83-460F-BCC9-B715082CB330@gmail.com> <4AF96ABA.30215.21201CFF@robvoyle.voyle.com> Message-ID: <323CE8C6-8DEB-4BA5-9291-8D6871173527@gmail.com> Rob, Totally agree with you. What i realize in your suggestion is that there must be an assumption that investors invest simply for the pay off, which is not one of my own assumptions about all investors. Raising this to the surface helps reframe the conversation about investors, I think. Imagine what might happen if there was a mutual fund for organizations that were in business for passion and purpose, who sought balanced value for all stakeholders. There would be an opportunity! Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 10, 2009, at 4:29 PM, Rob Voyle wrote: > Hi Cheri > > What would happen if we saw profit as simply a measure of efficiency > in > manifesting our purpose ie. offering something of value to the world > and not as > something to be sought in and of itself. > > Investors would be invited to invest in the offering of something of > value rather > than simply investing for profit. That's not to say that they would > not make a > profit, but the profit is secondary to the deeper purpose and value > the company > offers to the community. > > It is interesting to reflect on Krafts attempt to take over > Cadburys. While in > similar industries their core values are worlds apart. Cadburys is > committed to > fair trade coca, Krafts rejects fair trade as an intrusion into free > trade for the > purpose of making a profit. A merger of these two companies will do > violence to > each other's values and potentially destroy that which is life > giving to the > company. > > Rob > > Robert J. Voyle, Psy.D. > Director, Clergy Leadership Institute > For Coaching and Training in Appreciative Inquiry > Author: Core Elements of the Appreciative Way > http://www.clergyleadership.com/ > 503-647-2378 or 503-647-2382 > > > On 10 Nov 2009 at 13:52, Cheri Torres wrote: > >> Sachan, >> >> I love your insight about value as the life force of business. The >> stakeholder centered approach that John Mackey describes in Be the >> Solution is about creating value in five arenas--where no one area >> gains value at the expense of the others. The areas are: >> 1. Employees >> 2. Suppliers >> 3. Customers >> 4. Investors >> 5. Community and Environment >> >> Profit is the value stream for investors, but it is only one of five >> and should not be maximized at the expense of value to the other >> four. >> >> With regards to your other questions, I'm not clear what you are >> actually asking or suggesting. Could you please clarify what you >> mean >> by the following and how it relates to the issue of business: >>> Would raising the collective consciousness level of the world be a >>> common >>> good? If not, what else can it be? And if yes, then are we at an >>> inflexion >>> point in evolution where the further journey is involution? Where >> we >>> start >>> discovering ourselves at a deeper level of inter-beingness, from >> the >>> current >>> peak of individuation of the Self? >> > 25-5088 >> > From rdavies at rtpcompany.com Wed Nov 11 08:46:06 2009 From: rdavies at rtpcompany.com (Roger Davies) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:46:06 -0600 Subject: [Ailist] FW: Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force(Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? In-Reply-To: <99B8B02EA419154EBCA842938B28F7605F61D24C07@EXCHMB.bw.edu> References: <117EAAFF08D84D969FAD0537E29C1B03@winona.rtpco.local> <99B8B02EA419154EBCA842938B28F7605F61D24C07@EXCHMB.bw.edu> Message-ID: <5C70C7E5FA0A46FCB173B60DD38E1951@winona.rtpco.local> Hi Harry, I agree the vast majority of people don't INTEND to do wrong. In my experiences around the world I generally find that most people simply want to be secure and have their contribution valued and recognized by someone else. Sometimes we are unaware of the effect of our course of action, sometimes we make a bad choice. As a teenager did I ever get up and pretend to be sick to skip school for a day? Did I drink too much alcohol? Without getting into a very long discussion about how we form our notions of right and wrong and defining what those words mean maybe my point is better explained in terms of what drivers exist for us to make a decision. If I meet person A and have almost no information about them I will act politely because that is my cultural 'norm' of the right thing to do. If I know that they are a persistent criminal, sell illegal drugs and curse with every other word I may well go out of my way to avoid them (that person did get up in the morning with the intent of selling illegal drugs which I would consider wrong but clearly they don't). The more information we have that we consider viable the more it sways us toward reasoning based on that information and away from a 'natural' reaction. That's not 'wrong' that's just how we are wired. It's nice to make decisions on fact because we only have to consider the facts that we have. It's not necessarily any intention to do wrong it's just what we as humans tend to do that. If the data tells us it's the right decision then surely it is. Good data comes first if we're going to make all our decisions based on data. Is it 'right' or rather valid to come up with an idea that we believe is right and then seek out only that data that proves that we are and ignore other possibilities or conflicting data? I believe there is a great danger in quantifying things that are tenuously measureable. Mainly because we believe that measurables generate predictable outcomes. They provide location and direction for our actions. What is their value with regard to complex, dynamic systems that are not predicable? Ai in itself does not rely on measurement (and that is it's strength and attraction) it equally cannot generate an exact predetermined outcome (it would e much easier to sell to business leaders if it could). What it does do is give us a sense of who and where we are and what our purpose is and generate ideas to elevate those to higher levels. The only predictability is that some form of positive outcome is likely to be realized. Of course I could be wrong about that Roger -----Original Message----- From: Harry Bury [mailto:HBury at bw.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:39 AM To: Roger Davies; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: RE: [Ailist] FW: Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force(Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? Dear Roger, With all due respect, Roger, I do not believe people intend to "do wrong" with the intention of hiding it behind "measurements and systems." Rather, I believe everyone intends to "do right" and then seek to prove their "rightness" with "measurements and sysrems." I never met anyone who gets up in the morning with the intention to "do wrong." Have you? Many do wrong in my eyes because they and I have different value systems, it appears to me. Hence, it gets back to basic questions as Sachin suggests. What do we mean by "the good?" Appreciatively Yours, Harry J. Bury Chair, Doctoral Program in Business Administration (DBA) Graduate School of Commerce, Burapha University Silom, Bangkok 10500 Thailand AND Professor Emeritus Baldwin Wallace College Berea, OH 44017 USA 440-826-2395 Office 440-336-2801 Mobile Explore Dr. Bury's website http://homepages.bw.edu/~hbury ________________________________________ From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Roger Davies [rdavies at rtpcompany.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 12:34 PM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: [Ailist] FW: Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? -----Original Message----- From: Roger Davies [mailto:rdavies at rtpcompany.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:33 AM To: 'Cheri Torres'; 'Lionel Boxer' Cc: 'bruce at bruceelkin.com'; 'coachpb at comcast.net'; 'mail at sachinchavan.com' Subject: RE: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? Hi Cheri, I believe that is exactly the trap we fall into because we do not have good enough definitions of the words that we all use. True, money is the lifeblood of trade and as you correctly say is not its purpose. Measurement is also vital because without it we have no idea where we are and where we are headed. It would be wrong to assume that measurements necessarily lead to accurate prediction in dynamic, complex systems like the environment and the stock exchange. Where the trap lies is that it is not necessary to put a 'significant price' on the value of the environment to know that polluting it is not a good thing to do. Especially since we cannot predict how it will react. What we are doing is putting a price onto a moral issue. If we do so we can then equate the cost of remediation to the cost of the damage done and if the cost of remediation is too high we won't do it even though we know we should. We then get into an argument about the true cost of the environmental damage (which is virtually impossible to do) rather than the value of the environment. Once we've 'priced (not valued) the environment we will then get into a system of punitives or incentives the purpose of which is to direct moral behavior. Are we not human enough to know our own morals and be responsible for them? It should absolutely not be necessary to incentivize an organization or individual to look after the environment but in the space of two paragraphs we're there. To do so admits that we do not already know and enjoy it's intrinsic worth. Did the native American tribes require incentives to do so? No they had a moral belief system that already held the environment as sacred. They would not tell us that they had some fantastic measurements and an economic system that helped them protect and respect it. It's okay to be wrong about some things, recognize the fact and do what we can to change. It's really wrong to know that one is doing wrong and hide one's complicity behind measurements and systems. We have some severe environmental damage because we have an imbalanced 'for profit' driven economic model. The way to change that and many other current ills is to recognize that we've been wrong and need a new and sustainable model. Roger -----Original Message----- From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:21 AM To: Lionel Boxer Cc: bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; rdavies at rtpcompany.com; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? To voice the other side, putting a measurable value on that which is valuable enables an economic system to actually factor in its value into costs and pricing. Money and measurement are not the enemy, they are simply tools. I believe the fall of our current system is a result of our failing to realize that money (and measurement )are not the end goals but merely the means for helping us know if we are adding value and staying aligned with our broader purposeful goals, respectively. When people have to pay a significant price to pollute (because we value clean air) they will seek ways to decrease that cost or eliminate it. Seems to me that if we stop making people wrong and instead look at how the system encourages behavior we can then begin to change the system so that people naturally choose what is "right" and "good" (like not polluting). There is so little purpose in judging and so much to be gained by pondering what kinds of regulations, costs, and measures might actually lead us to once again value "all our brothers and sisters in nature". Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 9, 2009, at 6:48 PM, Lionel Boxer wrote: > Exactly, but that is what happens. Accountants create dollar values > for everything and now we have carbon trading. Meaningless > measurement that results in something with a money value that will > become traded like shares. > > Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT > University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my > "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" > now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>>> "Roger Davies" 10/11/09 10:12 AM >>> > > I'm also of a mind that in trying to quantify such things we actually > devalue them. There will be indirect, measurable benefits just like we > can measure heart rate or blood pressure to tell us about our health. > Our health > is much more than a bunch of measurements though. If you did a big > study and found that an Appreciative conversation contained x number > of y words would that mean that any conversation with that quota of > those words would be appreciative? I doubt it. Measurement, though > valuable can also be deceiving, especially when one tries to apply it > to dynamic systems. > In many > , many businesses the output of everyone is reduced to a few > measurements and if you don't meet your target you aren't a good > enough employee. > That's > one way businesses unwittingly act to disengage their workforce. > > Roger > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles > School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the > list administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From mail at sachinchavan.com Wed Nov 11 11:02:43 2009 From: mail at sachinchavan.com (Sachin Chavan) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:32:43 +0530 Subject: [Ailist] FW: Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the LifeForce (Vital energy/Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: <99B8B02EA419154EBCA842938B28F7605F61D24C07@EXCHMB.bw.edu> Message-ID: <73F8F771ED49472B874E9472D95BC0B0@SachinNotebook> Interesting point you ended the mail at, Harry. 'What do we mean by "the good"?' The answer changes from person to person (and for a person from time to time) amd seems to be closely related to 'What do I see my self as?' My self-concept. Regards, Sachin -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Harry Bury Sent: 11 November 2009 08:09 PM To: Roger Davies; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: Re: [Ailist] FW: Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the LifeForce (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? Dear Roger, With all due respect, Roger, I do not believe people intend to "do wrong" with the intention of hiding it behind "measurements and systems." Rather, I believe everyone intends to "do right" and then seek to prove their "rightness" with "measurements and sysrems." I never met anyone who gets up in the morning with the intention to "do wrong." Have you? Many do wrong in my eyes because they and I have different value systems, it appears to me. Hence, it gets back to basic questions as Sachin suggests. What do we mean by "the good?" Appreciatively Yours, Harry J. Bury Chair, Doctoral Program in Business Administration (DBA) Graduate School of Commerce, Burapha University Silom, Bangkok 10500 Thailand AND Professor Emeritus Baldwin Wallace College Berea, OH 44017 USA 440-826-2395 Office 440-336-2801 Mobile Explore Dr. Bury's website http://homepages.bw.edu/~hbury ________________________________________ From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Roger Davies [rdavies at rtpcompany.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 12:34 PM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: [Ailist] FW: Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? -----Original Message----- From: Roger Davies [mailto:rdavies at rtpcompany.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:33 AM To: 'Cheri Torres'; 'Lionel Boxer' Cc: 'bruce at bruceelkin.com'; 'coachpb at comcast.net'; 'mail at sachinchavan.com' Subject: RE: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? Hi Cheri, I believe that is exactly the trap we fall into because we do not have good enough definitions of the words that we all use. True, money is the lifeblood of trade and as you correctly say is not its purpose. Measurement is also vital because without it we have no idea where we are and where we are headed. It would be wrong to assume that measurements necessarily lead to accurate prediction in dynamic, complex systems like the environment and the stock exchange. Where the trap lies is that it is not necessary to put a 'significant price' on the value of the environment to know that polluting it is not a good thing to do. Especially since we cannot predict how it will react. What we are doing is putting a price onto a moral issue. If we do so we can then equate the cost of remediation to the cost of the damage done and if the cost of remediation is too high we won't do it even though we know we should. We then get into an argument about the true cost of the environmental damage (which is virtually impossible to do) rather than the value of the environment. Once we've 'priced (not valued) the environment we will then get into a system of punitives or incentives the purpose of which is to direct moral behavior. Are we not human enough to know our own morals and be responsible for them? It should absolutely not be necessary to incentivize an organization or individual to look after the environment but in the space of two paragraphs we're there. To do so admits that we do not already know and enjoy it's intrinsic worth. Did the native American tribes require incentives to do so? No they had a moral belief system that already held the environment as sacred. They would not tell us that they had some fantastic measurements and an economic system that helped them protect and respect it. It's okay to be wrong about some things, recognize the fact and do what we can to change. It's really wrong to know that one is doing wrong and hide one's complicity behind measurements and systems. We have some severe environmental damage because we have an imbalanced 'for profit' driven economic model. The way to change that and many other current ills is to recognize that we've been wrong and need a new and sustainable model. Roger -----Original Message----- From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:21 AM To: Lionel Boxer Cc: bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; rdavies at rtpcompany.com; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? To voice the other side, putting a measurable value on that which is valuable enables an economic system to actually factor in its value into costs and pricing. Money and measurement are not the enemy, they are simply tools. I believe the fall of our current system is a result of our failing to realize that money (and measurement )are not the end goals but merely the means for helping us know if we are adding value and staying aligned with our broader purposeful goals, respectively. When people have to pay a significant price to pollute (because we value clean air) they will seek ways to decrease that cost or eliminate it. Seems to me that if we stop making people wrong and instead look at how the system encourages behavior we can then begin to change the system so that people naturally choose what is "right" and "good" (like not polluting). There is so little purpose in judging and so much to be gained by pondering what kinds of regulations, costs, and measures might actually lead us to once again value "all our brothers and sisters in nature". Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 9, 2009, at 6:48 PM, Lionel Boxer wrote: > Exactly, but that is what happens. Accountants create dollar values > for everything and now we have carbon trading. Meaningless > measurement that results in something with a money value that will > become traded like shares. > > Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT > University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my > "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" > now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>>> "Roger Davies" 10/11/09 10:12 AM >>> > > I'm also of a mind that in trying to quantify such things we actually > devalue them. There will be indirect, measurable benefits just like we > can measure heart rate or blood pressure to tell us about our health. > Our health > is much more than a bunch of measurements though. If you did a big > study and found that an Appreciative conversation contained x number > of y words would that mean that any conversation with that quota of > those words would be appreciative? I doubt it. Measurement, though > valuable can also be deceiving, especially when one tries to apply it > to dynamic systems. > In many > , many businesses the output of everyone is reduced to a few > measurements and if you don't meet your target you aren't a good > enough employee. > That's > one way businesses unwittingly act to disengage their workforce. > > Roger > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles > School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the > list administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From mail at sachinchavan.com Wed Nov 11 11:15:56 2009 From: mail at sachinchavan.com (Sachin Chavan) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:45:56 +0530 Subject: [Ailist] Do multi-tasking and AI get along? Message-ID: <0ED4405179184868B6BFC3FCA6387A1C@SachinNotebook> Multi-tasking is seen as a virtue for the modern-day man. The business world especially promotes it. But, is it possible for one to be fully appreciative when engaged simultaneously with two or more persons / tasks / person-task combinations... which is what multi-tasking is about? And the question can also has a finer/subtler shade. Can I be appreciative of a person/situation if I am also consciously playing at the same time a role as a counsellor/consultant/mentor/friend? Because then, I am attending simultaneously to two - the person and my role! Does it therefore mean that to be 100% with a person, I need to go beyond my role? Or may be if I am able to do that (transcend the role), I would be really fulfilling the role! (Hope I am clear here). And it doesn't stop at just transcending a role, I can be 100% attending and hence 100% appreciative if I can transcend all my concepts (including the self-concept) for that period. And that calls for great mastery. I'd love to hear from this group (which I consider myself fortunate to have come across) on the above two (related) points. ? ? Regards, Sachin Sachin Chavan 91-22-25308355 91-9820316390 www.sachinchavan.com From bruce at bruceelkin.com Wed Nov 11 14:16:47 2009 From: bruce at bruceelkin.com (Bruce Elkin) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:16:47 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of Business? In-Reply-To: <323CE8C6-8DEB-4BA5-9291-8D6871173527@gmail.com> Message-ID: > Imagine what might happen if there was a mutual fund for organizations > that were in business for passion and purpose, who sought balanced > value for all stakeholders. There would be an opportunity! > > Cheri Hi, Cheri, all? There are a couple of approaches that do what you?re suggesting. More info at: Slow Capital ? a grassroots, non-profit seed fund supporting small food enterprises and building the industry? http://www.slowmoneyalliance.org/ Patient Capitalism ? bringing sustainable jobs, goods, service ? and dignity ? to the world?s poorest. http://tinyurl.com/Patient-Cap Cheers! Bruce ********************************************************************* BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most? With Whatever Life Throws At You! 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books & The Forthcoming Staying Up In Down Times E-Book ?Tell me, what will you do with your one wild and precious life?? - Mary Oliver Fr.ee e-Newsletter at: http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com ******************************************************************* From info at almond-insight.com Thu Nov 12 05:52:53 2009 From: info at almond-insight.com (info at almond-insight.com) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:52:53 -0000 Subject: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am sending a copy of a message I sent 2 days ago which wasn't posted to the list... ------------------------------------------------------------ Thank you all for this fascinating discussion. I learned a lot from it. I must say that I am not comfortable with some of the cynicism voiced about the current economic systems,profit, trading, share-ownership, money and measurements. Sure, not all of these systems work well and certainly there is space for improvement, but to say that they are all wrong is a bit too much. What I wish is for all of us to practice what we're preaching and focus on the parts of the current for-profit landscape that are good; on times these systems have worked very well, made a positive contribution to the world and the things we wish to see more of. I believe the world would have been a lot worse if we didn't have for-profit companies developing more efficient ways to produce food, develop drugs, and bring about technological innovation. Measurements can and should be improved. We should not dismiss them. We need to recognize that measurements lead people to focus energy in a desired direction therefore if we want to encourage certain behavior, lets measure it. The trick is to come up with measurements that are life giving rather than life-destroying. Our measurements can be aligned with what we want to see MORE OF rather than with what we want to see LESS OF. Profit does drive behavior, always have and always will have - whether you measure it in Dollars, pounds, yens, land, sea shells or even slaves. Wealth, regardless of measurement is always sought by humans as it is a translation of power and for some, self worth. The question is how do we direct people's desire for wealth to be aligned with goals that are adding hope, happiness, comfort, sustainability and fulfillment to others. The system of carbon trading is very good in my view because it brings us one step closer to a less polluted world. Can there be a better system? probably! does it mean we shouldn't start with a carbon trading system and seek better ways afterwards, no! Also, carbon trading in Europe is attached to an overall reduction of CO2 emissions. In other words, each organization has to reduce their emissions year-on-year in order to be able to trade and make money out of the scheme. the overall allowance of all participants is declining over time so that ensures movement towards a less polluted world. Finally, six sigma, lean thinking, balanced scorecards and other business tools aren't fads or bad for organizations. All have their positive purpose and value. None of them is a panacea. I see my role as someone who has worked in this area to bring the old deficit-focused tools to have a more strength-based focus. You can still use lean tools if you look for where value is created (rather than where it is wasted) and six sigma tools to analyze root causes of quality and perfect outcomes (instead of defects). We should also encourage business schools to teach AI IN ADDITION to the current curriculum which is focused on profit and cash flow. Then we can actually start the change we want to see. David Shaked. From HBury at bw.edu Thu Nov 12 08:52:38 2009 From: HBury at bw.edu (Harry Bury) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:52:38 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] FW: Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force(Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? In-Reply-To: <5C70C7E5FA0A46FCB173B60DD38E1951@winona.rtpco.local> References: <117EAAFF08D84D969FAD0537E29C1B03@winona.rtpco.local> <99B8B02EA419154EBCA842938B28F7605F61D24C07@EXCHMB.bw.edu>, <5C70C7E5FA0A46FCB173B60DD38E1951@winona.rtpco.local> Message-ID: <99B8B02EA419154EBCA842938B28F7605F61D24C14@EXCHMB.bw.edu> Dear Roger, Thanks ever so much for considering and responding so thougtfully to my email comments. I enjoy and am nourished by your observations to this AI list. I am grateful and most appreciative of your generosity both by the content and the time you give in sharing your thoughs with me and the rest of this group. I agree with your thoughtful comments here in response to my email. I particularly am delighted with your last statement, "Of course, I could be wrong about that." I wish to contrast that with the typical understanding of "fact" or "facts" mentioned in your fourth paragraph. It is common to understand "fact" as objective reality. I would postulate "fact" or "facts" as agreements based on perceptions rather than objective reality which I doubt any of us can know. Secondly, in the paragraph prior (third) you state, "that's not "wrong" that's just how we are wired." Again, I agree if you mean by "wired" our socialization or learned behavior and not genetic. I suspect all our values are learned and, therefore, can be unlearned with new information. New information is our hope and, therefore, a mind that does not assume it knows the "truth" is more likely to take in new information, whereas a mind that assumes it knows "the truth" is apt to be closed to new information or opinions. Closed minds, in my opinion, are at the foundation of our conflicts. Appreciatively Yours, Harry Harry J. Bury Chair, Doctoral Program in Business Administration (DBA) Graduate School of Commerce, Burapha University Silom, Bangkok 10500 Thailand AND Professor Emeritus Baldwin Wallace College Berea, OH 44017 USA 440-826-2395 Office 440-336-2801 Mobile Explore Dr. Bury's website http://homepages.bw.edu/~hbury ________________________________________ From: Roger Davies [rdavies at rtpcompany.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:46 AM To: Harry Bury; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: RE: [Ailist] FW: Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force(Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? Hi Harry, I agree the vast majority of people don't INTEND to do wrong. In my experiences around the world I generally find that most people simply want to be secure and have their contribution valued and recognized by someone else. Sometimes we are unaware of the effect of our course of action, sometimes we make a bad choice. As a teenager did I ever get up and pretend to be sick to skip school for a day? Did I drink too much alcohol? Without getting into a very long discussion about how we form our notions of right and wrong and defining what those words mean maybe my point is better explained in terms of what drivers exist for us to make a decision. If I meet person A and have almost no information about them I will act politely because that is my cultural 'norm' of the right thing to do. If I know that they are a persistent criminal, sell illegal drugs and curse with every other word I may well go out of my way to avoid them (that person did get up in the morning with the intent of selling illegal drugs which I would consider wrong but clearly they don't). The more information we have that we consider viable the more it sways us toward reasoning based on that information and away from a 'natural' reaction. That's not 'wrong' that's just how we are wired. It's nice to make decisions on fact because we only have to consider the facts that we have. It's not necessarily any intention to do wrong it's just what we as humans tend to do that. If the data tells us it's the right decision then surely it is. Good data comes first if we're going to make all our decisions based on data. Is it 'right' or rather valid to come up with an idea that we believe is right and then seek out only that data that proves that we are and ignore other possibilities or conflicting data? I believe there is a great danger in quantifying things that are tenuously measureable. Mainly because we believe that measurables generate predictable outcomes. They provide location and direction for our actions. What is their value with regard to complex, dynamic systems that are not predicable? Ai in itself does not rely on measurement (and that is it's strength and attraction) it equally cannot generate an exact predetermined outcome (it would e much easier to sell to business leaders if it could). What it does do is give us a sense of who and where we are and what our purpose is and generate ideas to elevate those to higher levels. The only predictability is that some form of positive outcome is likely to be realized. Of course I could be wrong about that Roger -----Original Message----- From: Harry Bury [mailto:HBury at bw.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:39 AM To: Roger Davies; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: RE: [Ailist] FW: Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force(Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? Dear Roger, With all due respect, Roger, I do not believe people intend to "do wrong" with the intention of hiding it behind "measurements and systems." Rather, I believe everyone intends to "do right" and then seek to prove their "rightness" with "measurements and sysrems." I never met anyone who gets up in the morning with the intention to "do wrong." Have you? Many do wrong in my eyes because they and I have different value systems, it appears to me. Hence, it gets back to basic questions as Sachin suggests. What do we mean by "the good?" Appreciatively Yours, Harry J. Bury Chair, Doctoral Program in Business Administration (DBA) Graduate School of Commerce, Burapha University Silom, Bangkok 10500 Thailand AND Professor Emeritus Baldwin Wallace College Berea, OH 44017 USA 440-826-2395 Office 440-336-2801 Mobile Explore Dr. Bury's website http://homepages.bw.edu/~hbury ________________________________________ From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Roger Davies [rdavies at rtpcompany.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 12:34 PM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: [Ailist] FW: Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? -----Original Message----- From: Roger Davies [mailto:rdavies at rtpcompany.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:33 AM To: 'Cheri Torres'; 'Lionel Boxer' Cc: 'bruce at bruceelkin.com'; 'coachpb at comcast.net'; 'mail at sachinchavan.com' Subject: RE: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? Hi Cheri, I believe that is exactly the trap we fall into because we do not have good enough definitions of the words that we all use. True, money is the lifeblood of trade and as you correctly say is not its purpose. Measurement is also vital because without it we have no idea where we are and where we are headed. It would be wrong to assume that measurements necessarily lead to accurate prediction in dynamic, complex systems like the environment and the stock exchange. Where the trap lies is that it is not necessary to put a 'significant price' on the value of the environment to know that polluting it is not a good thing to do. Especially since we cannot predict how it will react. What we are doing is putting a price onto a moral issue. If we do so we can then equate the cost of remediation to the cost of the damage done and if the cost of remediation is too high we won't do it even though we know we should. We then get into an argument about the true cost of the environmental damage (which is virtually impossible to do) rather than the value of the environment. Once we've 'priced (not valued) the environment we will then get into a system of punitives or incentives the purpose of which is to direct moral behavior. Are we not human enough to know our own morals and be responsible for them? It should absolutely not be necessary to incentivize an organization or individual to look after the environment but in the space of two paragraphs we're there. To do so admits that we do not already know and enjoy it's intrinsic worth. Did the native American tribes require incentives to do so? No they had a moral belief system that already held the environment as sacred. They would not tell us that they had some fantastic measurements and an economic system that helped them protect and respect it. It's okay to be wrong about some things, recognize the fact and do what we can to change. It's really wrong to know that one is doing wrong and hide one's complicity behind measurements and systems. We have some severe environmental damage because we have an imbalanced 'for profit' driven economic model. The way to change that and many other current ills is to recognize that we've been wrong and need a new and sustainable model. Roger -----Original Message----- From: Cheri Torres [mailto:cheri.torres at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:21 AM To: Lionel Boxer Cc: bruce at bruceelkin.com; coachpb at comcast.net; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu; rdavies at rtpcompany.com; mail at sachinchavan.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? To voice the other side, putting a measurable value on that which is valuable enables an economic system to actually factor in its value into costs and pricing. Money and measurement are not the enemy, they are simply tools. I believe the fall of our current system is a result of our failing to realize that money (and measurement )are not the end goals but merely the means for helping us know if we are adding value and staying aligned with our broader purposeful goals, respectively. When people have to pay a significant price to pollute (because we value clean air) they will seek ways to decrease that cost or eliminate it. Seems to me that if we stop making people wrong and instead look at how the system encourages behavior we can then begin to change the system so that people naturally choose what is "right" and "good" (like not polluting). There is so little purpose in judging and so much to be gained by pondering what kinds of regulations, costs, and measures might actually lead us to once again value "all our brothers and sisters in nature". Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 9, 2009, at 6:48 PM, Lionel Boxer wrote: > Exactly, but that is what happens. Accountants create dollar values > for everything and now we have carbon trading. Meaningless > measurement that results in something with a money value that will > become traded like shares. > > Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT > University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my > "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" > now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>>> "Roger Davies" 10/11/09 10:12 AM >>> > > I'm also of a mind that in trying to quantify such things we actually > devalue them. There will be indirect, measurable benefits just like we > can measure heart rate or blood pressure to tell us about our health. > Our health > is much more than a bunch of measurements though. If you did a big > study and found that an Appreciative conversation contained x number > of y words would that mean that any conversation with that quota of > those words would be appreciative? I doubt it. Measurement, though > valuable can also be deceiving, especially when one tries to apply it > to dynamic systems. > In many > , many businesses the output of everyone is reduced to a few > measurements and if you don't meet your target you aren't a good > enough employee. > That's > one way businesses unwittingly act to disengage their workforce. > > Roger > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles > School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the > list administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From cheri.torres at gmail.com Thu Nov 12 10:35:48 2009 From: cheri.torres at gmail.com (Cheri Torres) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:35:48 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) ofBusiness? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, Thank you for your post. Well said. Thank goodness for differences in opinion--as they push us to new ground--and how good to be reminded that we don't need to through out the past in order to redesign the future. As you suggest, the heart of AI is to discover the wealth (in all it's forms) in what is and bring it forward to support our visions and dreams. Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 12, 2009, at 7:52 AM, info at almond-insight.com wrote: > I am sending a copy of a message I sent 2 days ago which wasn't > posted to > the list... > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Thank you all for this fascinating discussion. I learned a lot from > it. > > I must say that I am not comfortable with some of the cynicism voiced > about the current economic systems,profit, trading, share-ownership, > money > and measurements. Sure, not all of these systems work well and > certainly > there is space for improvement, but to say that they are all wrong > is a > bit too much. What I wish is for all of us to practice what we're > preaching and focus on the parts of the current for-profit landscape > that > are good; on times these systems have worked very well, made a > positive > contribution to the world and the things we wish to see more of. I > believe > the world would have been a lot worse if we didn't have for-profit > companies developing more efficient ways to produce food, develop > drugs, > and bring about technological innovation. > > Measurements can and should be improved. We should not dismiss > them. We > need to recognize that measurements lead people to focus energy in a > desired direction therefore if we want to encourage certain > behavior, lets > measure it. The trick is to come up with measurements that are life > giving rather than life-destroying. Our measurements can be aligned > with > what we want to see MORE OF rather than with what we want to see > LESS OF. > > Profit does drive behavior, always have and always will have - > whether you > measure it in Dollars, pounds, yens, land, sea shells or even slaves. > Wealth, regardless of measurement is always sought by humans as it > is a > translation of power and for some, self worth. The question is how > do we > direct people's desire for wealth to be aligned with goals that are > adding > hope, happiness, comfort, sustainability and fulfillment to others. > The > system of carbon trading is very good in my view because it brings > us one > step closer to a less polluted world. Can there be a better system? > probably! does it mean we shouldn't start with a carbon trading > system and > seek better ways afterwards, no! Also, carbon trading in Europe is > attached to an overall reduction of CO2 emissions. In other words, > each > organization has to reduce their emissions year-on-year in order to be > able to trade and make money out of the scheme. the overall > allowance of > all participants is declining over time so that ensures movement > towards a > less polluted world. > > Finally, six sigma, lean thinking, balanced scorecards and other > business > tools aren't fads or bad for organizations. All have their positive > purpose and value. None of them is a panacea. I see my role as > someone > who has worked in this area to bring the old deficit-focused tools > to have > a more strength-based focus. You can still use lean tools if you > look for > where value is created (rather than where it is wasted) and six sigma > tools to analyze root causes of quality and perfect outcomes > (instead of > defects). We should also encourage business schools to teach AI IN > ADDITION to the current curriculum which is focused on profit and cash > flow. Then we can actually start the change we want to see. > > David Shaked. > > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David > Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain > is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Thu Nov 12 13:53:19 2009 From: lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au (Lionel Boxer) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:53:19 +1100 Subject: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vitalenergy/Prana) ofBusiness? Message-ID: <4AFD1072020000AF0003B212@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> I am not comfortable with the cynicism voiced either, but where there is smoke there is fire and leopards do not change their spots. A lot of people should be in jail. AI offers a possible solution to this. Perhaps the AI question to ask is, "what good feelings do you feel when you make a decision that benefits all stakeholders?" I know at least one person who would look at me blank and call me a "bolshi" if I asked that question. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> 13/11/09 4:16 AM >>> I am sending a copy of a message I sent 2 days ago which wasn't posted to the list... ------------------------------------------------------------ Thank you all for this fascinating discussion. I learned a lot from it. I must say that I am not comfortable with some of the cynicism voiced about the current economic systems,profit, trading, share-ownership, money and measurements. From rdavies at rtpcompany.com Thu Nov 12 15:49:40 2009 From: rdavies at rtpcompany.com (Roger Davies) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:49:40 -0600 Subject: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the LifeForce (Vitalenergy/Prana) ofBusiness? In-Reply-To: <4AFD1072020000AF0003B212@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> References: <4AFD1072020000AF0003B212@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Message-ID: <93470D9502BE4310AE257B42204AF689@winona.rtpco.local> I don't have all the posts in the thread in front of me but one the whole I think they were a critical evaluation of our existing system. They were by and large reasonable proposals about how that system operates. Migration of work and labor is an economic reality played out since the industrial revolution. An increasing reliance and bias toward data and short term profit focus is evident to anyone working in a for profit business. Pointing out these realities is not cynical. I do agree in hindsight hat some better words could have been chosen. I don't think that the majority of executives deliberately make expedient decisions and hide behind measurements but I do think that many data based decisions are made without a good understanding of their full effect or how appropriate they are. Roger -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:53 PM To: info at almond-insight.com; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Cc: mail at david-shaked.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the LifeForce (Vitalenergy/Prana) ofBusiness? I am not comfortable with the cynicism voiced either, but where there is smoke there is fire and leopards do not change their spots. A lot of people should be in jail. AI offers a possible solution to this. Perhaps the AI question to ask is, "what good feelings do you feel when you make a decision that benefits all stakeholders?" I know at least one person who would look at me blank and call me a "bolshi" if I asked that question. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> 13/11/09 4:16 AM >>> I am sending a copy of a message I sent 2 days ago which wasn't posted to the list... ------------------------------------------------------------ Thank you all for this fascinating discussion. I learned a lot from it. I must say that I am not comfortable with some of the cynicism voiced about the current economic systems,profit, trading, share-ownership, money and measurements. _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From ybroer at in-dialogue.org Thu Nov 12 16:15:26 2009 From: ybroer at in-dialogue.org (Yvor Broer) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:15:26 +0100 Subject: [Ailist] Invitation for a workshop on strength based coaching, including appreciative coaching (25-30 Jan. 2010) Message-ID: <9D3554915713444E93D3D60999513473@DIALOGUE01> Dear all, In Dialogue is pleased to offer a workshop on strength based coaching, 25th until the 30th of January 2010. This workshop is generously supported by the Grundtvig programme of the EU and for that reason we can offer the workshop for a course fee of only 100 Euros, including travel, board and lodging! The target group for this workshop are professionals and non professionals that want to use strength based coaching in their work and/ or personal life, and who are coming from Austria, Denmark, Finland, Germany or Sweden. This workshop will be based on psychological research on coaching. Among others within the areas of solution focused coaching, appreciative inquiry, and positive psychology. In spite of the theoretical basis, the training will be highly practical, and you will get a chance to practice different questioning techniques that draw out resources, create new perspectives and alternative ways of dealing with (perceived) difficulties The deadline for applying is the 13th of December 2009 and selection results will be announced the week after. If you interest in this workshop, please use this link to find the detailed call and application form: http://www.in-dialogue.org/index.php?pagina=*strength-based-coaching-worksho p We would appreciate if you could forward this invitation to those you think have an interest. If you are not from Austria, Denmark, Germany, Finland or Sweden and have an interest in workshops on e.g. strength based coaching, appreciative inquiry or story telling, send an email to info at in-dialogue.org and/ or check our home page in the near future, as more workshops and courses will be announced soon, many of them with sponsorship options (EEA and EFTA countries only). With kind regards, Yvor Broer ____________________________________ In Dialogue Inspiring change, development and growth Phone DK +4535113851 Phone NL +31303200851 Mobile DK +4529916244 Mobile NL +31619216244 Email: ybroer at in-dialogue.org Web: www.in-dialogue.org ____________________________________ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. __________________________________________ From cwhitneysanchez at gmail.com Thu Nov 12 19:08:16 2009 From: cwhitneysanchez at gmail.com (Christine Whitney Sanchez) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:08:16 -0700 Subject: [Ailist] Free recording of David Cooperrider's MaestroMonth session Message-ID: <59DCB6B8-9BB9-446C-BB82-2EEF808549D5@gmail.com> For those of you who missed David's uplifting AI Summit telecon session, he told wonderful stories, including "A Green City on a Blue Lake" about the city-wide summit to create a sustainable Cleveland. Here's the link to the recording...http://mm2audio.s3.amazonaws.com/DavidCooperrider.mp3 . Enjoy! Christine Christine Whitney Sanchez Collaborative Wisdom & Strategy 480.759.0262 www.christinewhitneysanchez.com Skype: christinewhitneysanchez http://www.facebook.com/ChristineWhitneySanchez From rich at 4tgc.org Thu Nov 12 23:55:01 2009 From: rich at 4tgc.org (Rich Henry) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:55:01 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] Charter for Compassion Message-ID: Hi Appreciators - I've been away for awhile. It's good to be back. Yesterday, Nov. 12 was the global launch of the Charter for Compassion. Please see the website and video for this beautiful and important document at www.CharterForCompassion.org. The Charter is closely aligned with our AI principles. You probably know of the TED conference and videos ("Ideas worth spreading"). Last year, Karen Armstrong's presentation on compassion received the TED Prize, which supported the creation of the Charter. See the story on the front page at TED.com. (Her TED Talk video is also there.) Love, Blessings, & Blue Skies, Rich ---------------- Rich Henry ForTheGrandChildren.org 425-452-1134 425-890-0568 (cell) rich at 4tgc.org From HBury at bw.edu Fri Nov 13 09:49:56 2009 From: HBury at bw.edu (Harry Bury) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:49:56 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vitalenergy/Prana) ofBusiness? In-Reply-To: <4AFD1072020000AF0003B212@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> References: <4AFD1072020000AF0003B212@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Message-ID: <99B8B02EA419154EBCA842938B28F7605F61D24C2B@EXCHMB.bw.edu> Dear Lionel, I agree with you, when I am cynical I am uncomfortable. I have been in jail and I do not wish that experience on anyone else. Jails, in my experience, are hardly places of rehabilitation. Many come out far worst than when they went in. My experience is they missed out on being loved before they went to jail and they experienced even more unloving behavior while in jail. Moreover we who send people to jail and the jail guards are often filled with feelings of vengeance which is also quite uncomfortable. I find loving the perpetrator, not by enabling them to continue their anti-social behaviors, but by educating them to understand such is not in their self interest is an admirable and fulfilling profession. Warm Regards, Harry J. Bury Chair, Doctoral Program in Business Administration (DBA) Graduate School of Commerce, Burapha University Silom, Bangkok 10500 Thailand AND Professor Emeritus Baldwin Wallace College Berea, OH 44017 USA 440-826-2395 Office 440-336-2801 Mobile Explore Dr. Bury's website http://homepages.bw.edu/~hbury ________________________________________ From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer [lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au] Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:53 PM To: info at almond-insight.com; ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Cc: mail at david-shaked.com Subject: Re: [Ailist] Devaluing by valuing Re: What is the Life Force (Vitalenergy/Prana) ofBusiness? I am not comfortable with the cynicism voiced either, but where there is smoke there is fire and leopards do not change their spots. A lot of people should be in jail. AI offers a possible solution to this. Perhaps the AI question to ask is, "what good feelings do you feel when you make a decision that benefits all stakeholders?" I know at least one person who would look at me blank and call me a "bolshi" if I asked that question. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> 13/11/09 4:16 AM >>> I am sending a copy of a message I sent 2 days ago which wasn't posted to the list... ------------------------------------------------------------ Thank you all for this fascinating discussion. I learned a lot from it. I must say that I am not comfortable with some of the cynicism voiced about the current economic systems,profit, trading, share-ownership, money and measurements. _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From rdavies at rtpcompany.com Fri Nov 13 14:38:48 2009 From: rdavies at rtpcompany.com (Roger Davies) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:38:48 -0600 Subject: [Ailist] History and an Appreciative Question Message-ID: Dear All, I hope the author of the attached work doesn't mind me distributing it anonymously. I cannot vouch for it's full authenticity as I have not thoroughly researched it but I suspect it is generally correct. The author (from other items I have read) appears knowledgeable and has some positive ideas. However they, tend to be national solutions rather than local ones. I am interested in how local communities might be able to help themselves. The question I have to go with it is does anyone know of or has been involved in any initiatives aimed at increasing the level of local investment into local organizations for the benefit of the local community. I know that this happens with micro loans in India and that is maybe a good enough model. I wonder if there are others? Are there any micro loan systems working locally in the US? I would also like to know if anyone has worked on alternative retirement options to the 401k / Roth IRA type of thing. I'm increasingly convinced and concerned that these in themselves are not secure options for the individual and not of long term benefit for the nation as a whole. Such options would help smaller more rural communities thrive where currently many populations are declining. A less concentrated workforce is also more resilient and flexible. Thanks Roger -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: local v national investment history.doc Type: application/msword Size: 22016 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kathykidd at earthlink.net Fri Nov 13 17:37:55 2009 From: kathykidd at earthlink.net (Kathy Kidd) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:37:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of Business? Message-ID: <9997986.1258159075624.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hello Everyone, I just read a wonderful book that addresses many of the points that some of you are making. He writes about the history of "corporatocracy" and how we got to where we are economically, and the possibilities for moving forward with the goal of a triple bottom line---people (social justice), the plantet(sustainability) and profits for all, rather than just the bottom line of profits for shareholders and CEO's. It is called Hoodwinked by John Perkins. I highly recommend it. He has also written Confessions of an Economic Hit Man and The Secret History of the American Empire. -----Original Message----- >From: Rob Voyle >Sent: Nov 10, 2009 4:29 PM >To: Cheri Torres , 'Roger Davies' , bruce at bruceelkin.com, 'Lionel Boxer' , ailist at lists.business.utah.edu, mail at sachinchavan.com >Subject: Re: [Ailist] What is the Life Force (Vital energy/Prana) of Business? > >Hi Cheri > >What would happen if we saw profit as simply a measure of efficiency in >manifesting our purpose ie. offering something of value to the world and not as >something to be sought in and of itself. > >Investors would be invited to invest in the offering of something of value rather >than simply investing for profit. That's not to say that they would not make a >profit, but the profit is secondary to the deeper purpose and value the company >offers to the community. > >It is interesting to reflect on Krafts attempt to take over Cadburys. While in >similar industries their core values are worlds apart. Cadburys is committed to >fair trade coca, Krafts rejects fair trade as an intrusion into free trade for the >purpose of making a profit. A merger of these two companies will do violence to >each other's values and potentially destroy that which is life giving to the >company. > >Rob > >Robert J. Voyle, Psy.D. >Director, Clergy Leadership Institute >For Coaching and Training in Appreciative Inquiry >Author: Core Elements of the Appreciative Way >http://www.clergyleadership.com/ >503-647-2378 or 503-647-2382 > > >On 10 Nov 2009 at 13:52, Cheri Torres wrote: > >> Sachan, >> >> I love your insight about value as the life force of business. The >> stakeholder centered approach that John Mackey describes in Be the >> Solution is about creating value in five arenas--where no one area >> gains value at the expense of the others. The areas are: >> 1. Employees >> 2. Suppliers >> 3. Customers >> 4. Investors >> 5. Community and Environment >> >> Profit is the value stream for investors, but it is only one of five >> and should not be maximized at the expense of value to the other >> four. >> >> With regards to your other questions, I'm not clear what you are >> actually asking or suggesting. Could you please clarify what you >> mean >> by the following and how it relates to the issue of business: >> > Would raising the collective consciousness level of the world be a >> > common >> > good? If not, what else can it be? And if yes, then are we at an >> > inflexion >> > point in evolution where the further journey is involution? Where >> we >> > start >> > discovering ourselves at a deeper level of inter-beingness, from >> the >> > current >> > peak of individuation of the Self? >> >25-5088 >> > >_______________________________________________ >The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: >http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From mail at sachinchavan.com Fri Nov 13 22:10:16 2009 From: mail at sachinchavan.com (Sachin Chavan) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:40:16 +0530 Subject: [Ailist] History and an Appreciative Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2BC72D76B6374EF383F781D5FC6170D8@SachinNotebook> Good point, Roger. Why do small businesses need to go to large financing companies for capital? That's the irony of our times. Regards, Sachin -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Roger Davies Sent: 14 November 2009 03:09 AM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: [Ailist] History and an Appreciative Question Dear All, I hope the author of the attached work doesn't mind me distributing it anonymously. I cannot vouch for it's full authenticity as I have not thoroughly researched it but I suspect it is generally correct. The author (from other items I have read) appears knowledgeable and has some positive ideas. However they, tend to be national solutions rather than local ones. I am interested in how local communities might be able to help themselves. The question I have to go with it is does anyone know of or has been involved in any initiatives aimed at increasing the level of local investment into local organizations for the benefit of the local community. I know that this happens with micro loans in India and that is maybe a good enough model. I wonder if there are others? Are there any micro loan systems working locally in the US? I would also like to know if anyone has worked on alternative retirement options to the 401k / Roth IRA type of thing. I'm increasingly convinced and concerned that these in themselves are not secure options for the individual and not of long term benefit for the nation as a whole. Such options would help smaller more rural communities thrive where currently many populations are declining. A less concentrated workforce is also more resilient and flexible. Thanks Roger From stephanie at brainhygiene.com Sat Nov 14 12:55:40 2009 From: stephanie at brainhygiene.com (Stephanie) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:55:40 -0700 Subject: [Ailist] Law school contemplative, mindfulness, and meditation programs Message-ID: Please let me know of other law school programs I should add. Thanks. http://westallen.typepad.com/idealawg/2009/11/law-school-contemplative-mindful-meditation-programs.html My best, Stephanie ???????????????????????????????????? Stephanie West Allen, JD http://www.brainsonpurpose.com http://www.idealawg.net Denver, CO USA From jcockell at ns.sympatico.ca Sun Nov 15 06:57:04 2009 From: jcockell at ns.sympatico.ca (jcockell at ns.sympatico.ca) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 9:57:04 -0400 Subject: [Ailist] Online AI course Message-ID: <20091115085704.QFR0K.33575.root@tormtz05> Attached is information on the Appreciative Inquiry course that I teach online through the University of Victoria. It runs for 6 weeks in January and February 2009. Cheers, Jeanie www.jeaniecockell.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Online AI course-1-pager- AB edit.doc Type: application/msword Size: 90112 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Mon Nov 16 12:31:34 2009 From: lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au (Lionel Boxer) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 06:31:34 +1100 Subject: [Ailist] Dream interpretation Message-ID: <4B024346020000AF0003B36E@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Imagine - last night I woke up in a sweat: Kevin O7 bunting hanging on the wall, with a photo of Elmer Fudd wearing an O7 armband, Peter Garat as Colonel Clink, a slightly fatter Julia Gillard as General Burkholdtz, and in steps Malcolm Turnbull wearing a black usaf flight jacket and bird colonel wings. In the corner is Anthony Albanese in a long black trench coat screaming, "who is this man!" Uncle Wilson and Uncle Barnaby are in the tunnel creating another turmoil to confound the national socialists. Then in steps a big green Shriek. What does that mean? Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net From MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz Tue Nov 17 11:49:05 2009 From: MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz (Michael L Schwartz) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:49:05 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] Student interns Message-ID: <002801ca67b6$a33eef80$e9bcce80$@biz> I'm preparing a proposal, together with Tracey Carsten Jedd, where we will be utilizing student interns. They will most likely be at the Masters Level, or higher. The use of student interns has several advantages: Lower cost Creativity Fewer preconceived notions of what is or isn't possible Give students practical applications (marketing, surveys, etc) etc. Question we have is: If the student are foreign nationals, and they are doing this work as part of a class project/assignment, is student Visa adequate? Anticipate that they would not be paid due to this being a class assignment. Anyone have any knowledge on this? Or, any thoughts on use of student interns, in general. Thanks. Michael L Schwartz, PE, PMP President Positive Concepts, Inc. Office: 248 828 7701 Fax: 248 828 7708 Cell: 248 318 6070 Email: MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz Web: www.PositiveConcepts.biz LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaellschwartz Enhancing the positive. From stephanie at brainhygiene.com Tue Nov 17 12:57:37 2009 From: stephanie at brainhygiene.com (Stephanie) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:57:37 -0700 Subject: [Ailist] New blog on the neuroscience of social interactions Message-ID: http://westallen.typepad.com/idealawg/2009/11/new-blog-on-the-neuroscience-of.html Best, Stephanie ???????????????????????????????????? Stephanie West Allen, JD http://www.brainsonpurpose.com http://www.idealawg.net Denver, CO USA From lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Tue Nov 17 15:12:09 2009 From: lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au (Lionel Boxer) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:12:09 +1100 Subject: [Ailist] Student interns Message-ID: <4B03BA6A020000AF0003B416@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> I have had student engineers do projects in industry. Some have set up management programs and others have conducted studies. Often there are government grants. In 1996 there was an Australia government program that sent students to a TAFE course a few days per week and they were employed in the business a few days per week - an affinity between the job description and the coures subject matter. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> Michael L Schwartz 18/11/09 6:41 AM >>> I'm preparing a proposal, together with Tracey Carsten Jedd, where we will be utilizing student interns. They will most likely be at the Masters Level, or higher. The use of student interns has several advantages: Lower cost Creativity Fewer preconceived notions of what is or isn't possible Give students practical applications (marketing, surveys, etc) etc. Question we have is: If the student are foreign nationals, and they are doing this work as part of a class project/assignment, is student Visa adequate? Anticipate that they would not be paid due to this being a class assignment. Anyone have any knowledge on this? Or, any thoughts on use of student interns, in general. Thanks. Michael L Schwartz, PE, PMP President Positive Concepts, Inc. Office: 248 828 7701 Fax: 248 828 7708 Cell: 248 318 6070 Email: MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz Web: www.PositiveConcepts.biz LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaellschwartz Enhancing the positive. _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From cathyjoseph at optonline.net Tue Nov 17 19:35:50 2009 From: cathyjoseph at optonline.net (Cathy Joseph) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:35:50 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] Student interns In-Reply-To: <002801ca67b6$a33eef80$e9bcce80$@biz> Message-ID: Michael I worked with MBA student visas at GE a few years back - my information is not up to date but it will give you a starting point. We hired foreign nationals who held either an F-1 (the more common) or J-1 visa. Both give graduates the option of Optional Practical Training (OPT) post graduation. I thought that they also used OPT for internships, but the immigration site mentions Curricular Practical Training (CPT) to gain work experience in a student's field of study while still a full time student. See http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/visa_f1.html. OPT is a legal 12-month work permit that can be taken in segments of time or all at once. More on that at http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/opt.html. You raise the question of pay and I cannot be of help there. Those we hired were paid. I hope this is helpful! Cathy Joseph -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu]On Behalf Of Michael L Schwartz Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 1:49 PM To: ailist at lists.business.utah.edu Subject: [Ailist] Student interns I'm preparing a proposal, together with Tracey Carsten Jedd, where we will be utilizing student interns. They will most likely be at the Masters Level, or higher. The use of student interns has several advantages: Lower cost Creativity Fewer preconceived notions of what is or isn't possible Give students practical applications (marketing, surveys, etc) etc. Question we have is: If the student are foreign nationals, and they are doing this work as part of a class project/assignment, is student Visa adequate? Anticipate that they would not be paid due to this being a class assignment. Anyone have any knowledge on this? Or, any thoughts on use of student interns, in general. Thanks. Michael L Schwartz, PE, PMP President Positive Concepts, Inc. Office: 248 828 7701 Fax: 248 828 7708 Cell: 248 318 6070 Email: MSchwartz at PositiveConcepts.biz Web: www.PositiveConcepts.biz LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaellschwartz Enhancing the positive. _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.69/2508 - Release Date: 11/17/09 07:40:00 From cheri.torres at gmail.com Wed Nov 18 10:51:05 2009 From: cheri.torres at gmail.com (Cheri Torres) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:51:05 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] Cap and Trade Message-ID: <5B04ADE9-5962-4A14-B183-CA426B80936F@gmail.com> For those interested in greater detail and info about how cap and trade will help move us forward, see the attached Brookings Report. Cheri -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Stavins Report.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 2615822 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 From lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Wed Nov 18 14:07:39 2009 From: lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au (Lionel Boxer) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:07:39 +1100 Subject: [Ailist] Just a lot of hot air ... Re: Cap and Trade Message-ID: <4B04FCCB020000AF0003B4C8@its-gw-inet57.its.rmit.edu.au> Cap and Trade is a nice feeling sort of thing. However, over the years I have noticed that people who run businesses are very complacent about the amount of unnecessary pollution they spill into the air and water. I wrote a paper about this in 1991: http://intergon.net/phd/BoxerTQMEnv1991.html In 2001 the CEO of a multinational petrochemical told me that he was prepared to talk about what was in the public domain and not about what had still been uncovered. One incident involved significant fines that had been widely reported on in the press that he explained was caused by people who just did not bother making the effort to fix problems and reduce unnecessary pollution. It is easier to do nothing and go home. Sap and Trade is nothing more than spin. It provides people who can pay a "permit" to continue doing nothing. If self regulation really worked Moses would have come down from the mountain with the ten guidelines. Commandments are enforced by law - we need inspectors to appreciate situations, reward compliance and punish complacent wilfully neglectful noncompliance. Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256 Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer at rmit.edu.au Graduate School of Business my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory" now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net >>> Cheri Torres 19/11/09 7:37 AM >>> For those interested in greater detail and info about how cap and trade will help move us forward, see the attached Brookings Report. Cheri From cheri.torres at gmail.com Wed Nov 18 14:47:04 2009 From: cheri.torres at gmail.com (Cheri Torres) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:47:04 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] Cap and Trade In-Reply-To: <588BEB695C044006BFCC6ABCC3E74E24@DHVG3VB1> References: <5B04ADE9-5962-4A14-B183-CA426B80936F@gmail.com> <588BEB695C044006BFCC6ABCC3E74E24@DHVG3VB1> Message-ID: Gary, I appreciate your question. I sent this because a couple of weeks ago (or last week, not sure) part a discussion about sustainability and business on this list serve involved a conversation about cap and trade. I am not interested in re-instigating the conversation. I have no political motivation. I am passing along information relevant to the former conversation. Cheri Cheri B. Torres, Ph.D. Collaborative by Design 135 Westwood Place Asheville, NC 28806 828-225-5088 On Nov 18, 2009, at 4:32 PM, Gary Lear wrote: > Cheri, > > Cap and trade will help move us forward...on what, with specific > regard to the > use of AI? After all, this is a list that is here to discuss the > use and > application of Appreciative Inquiry, and not political agendas, > right? So > before I go reading through this 64 page report, I'd sure like to > know what you > think is particularly applicable to AI. > > Thanks in advance. > > Make a Great Day! > > Gary Lear, President & CEO > Author of Leadership Lessons From the Medicine Wheel: The Seven > Elements of High > Performance > > Resource Development Systems LLC > Managing the Human Side of Business (sm) > > gelear at rds-net.com www.ResourceDevelopmentSystems.com > > (c) 2009 permission denied to use this post in any other forum or in > any way > other than on the discussion list that it was originally posted. > From stephanie at brainhygiene.com Thu Nov 19 07:58:32 2009 From: stephanie at brainhygiene.com (Stephanie) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:58:32 -0700 Subject: [Ailist] Article: "Venting or Vipassana? Mindfulness Meditation's Potential for Reducing Anger's Role in Mediation" Message-ID: <916EDE3C-E69F-474A-9CFF-53CDD9B6A89B@brainhygiene.com> http://westallen.typepad.com/idealawg/2009/11/article-from-cardoza-journal-of-conflict-resolution.html Stephanie ???????????????????????????????????? Stephanie West Allen, JD http://www.brainsonpurpose.com http://www.idealawg.net Denver, CO USA From paulandrews at earthlink.net Thu Nov 19 09:20:07 2009 From: paulandrews at earthlink.net (paulandrews at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:20:07 -0500 Subject: [Ailist] Nabokov quote Message-ID: <380-220091141916207437@M2W121.mail2web.com> Thought others might enjoy this quote from Vladimir Nabokov -- "A spiral is a circle liberated." Lovely music in that thought. Paul Andrews -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting From mail at sachinchavan.com Fri Nov 20 02:16:43 2009 From: mail at sachinchavan.com (Sachin Chavan) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:46:43 +0530 Subject: [Ailist] Article: "Venting or Vipassana? Mindfulness Meditation'sPotential for Reducing Anger's Role in Mediation" In-Reply-To: <916EDE3C-E69F-474A-9CFF-53CDD9B6A89B@brainhygiene.com> Message-ID: <22609A4173B049D6919AFEEA178A4758@SachinNotebook> Stephanie, I agree something as basic as mindfulnes has a role in every walk of life. Vipassana is a tool available for us to cultivate mindfulness, and we are grateful to the lineage of Burmese monks that kept it alive over the centuries and Mr Goenka and his disciples who spread it across the world in under three decades. Buddha gave the noble eightfold path of which three (right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration) amount to Samadhi (Meditation), two (right view and right intention) amount to Prajna (Wisdom), and three (right speech, right action and right livelihood) amount to Sila (Ethical conduct). While the modern world has over the recent decades taken to Samadhi (meditation), one thinks, not enough thought and trial has been given to Sila (Ethical conduct). For eg. The Sila of right speech abandons all kinds of lies. The modern practice of law where advocates take up the case of a defendant they know has commited the crime would break this Sila, for example. Buddhist teachers are clear the 8-fold path has to be adopted in its entiriety. Without stregthening the pratice of Sila, its difficult to sustain the effects of Samadhi, and move further towards Prajna. Thanks for the article. Anger and all unholistic emotions can be tackled at their roots through detached observation/ mindfulness. Sachin -----Original Message----- From: ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu [mailto:ailist-bounces at lists.business.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Stephanie Sent: 19 November 2009 08:29 PM To: AI list Subject: [Ailist] Article: "Venting or Vipassana? Mindfulness Meditation'sPotential for Reducing Anger's Role in Mediation" http://westallen.typepad.com/idealawg/2009/11/article-from-cardoza-journal-o f-conflict-resolution.html Stephanie .................................... Stephanie West Allen, JD http://www.brainsonpurpose.com http://www.idealawg.net Denver, CO USA _______________________________________________ The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to: http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist From Dlalondeny at aol.com Sat Nov 21 11:10:57 2009 From: Dlalondeny at aol.com (Dlalondeny at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:10:57 EST Subject: [Ailist] Request for best Appreciative Inquiry Thanksgiving Question Message-ID: Hi Everyone: The New York AI Group is gathering on Monday and focusing on the spirit of Thanksgiving as a way of moving into the holiday season and thought all could benefit from the collective sharing of these questions. So I thought I would put it out to the list "What is your best Thanksgiving AI Question?" I will collect them all and then post the collective list. Here is one to get us started.... "Thinking back over all of your Thanksgivings, tell a story about your best Thanksgiving... one that felt most warm and meaningful. Who was there, what made it such wonderful and what specifically made it so special?" The meeting is on Monday evening, so please share as soon as possible, but will continue to collect until Thanksgiving morning. and will post for all to share around the Thanksgiving table. ;-) For all of those who were in Nepal.... I hope that it was as an amazing an experience as you had wished for. Looking forward to hearing reports. Warm regards, Denise Denise Lalonde Lalonde Consulting and Coaching 212-974-1438 dlalondeny at aol.com From motivate at frontiernet.net Sat Nov 21 16:47:39 2009 From: motivate at frontiernet.net (Julie Caldwell) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:47:39 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] AI LIST HOLIDAY CONF CALL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7DE51C9A-0730-4111-841E-F404D0B8E7CB@frontiernet.net> Hi everybody.... Recently I invested in the Maestro Conference tool, after having the pleasure of attending David Coperrider session. The tool is easy to use, and I would be happy to convene an AI-Thanksgiving or Holiday get- to-gether if folks are interested. We could do one call or a series of calls, as my gift to the AI community. Let me know how many are interested and what format would work best? The call tool allows us to break into small groups, pass the mic, poll the participants, record the call. All we have to do is select some dates, and times and length --- and I'll go ahead and book the call, and facilitate the tool, if one or two of you can facilitate the call with me, that would be great. Then I can focus on being the MC and tech support, and someone else can convene the session. If anyone else would like to help with tech support, I'd be happy to have an assistant. Cheer, Julie Caldwell Emerging Futures Youth Network www.emergingfuturesyouth.net 775 753 8414 From msands at dccnet.com Sat Nov 21 17:21:26 2009 From: msands at dccnet.com (Mike Sands) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:21:26 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] Request for best Appreciative Inquiry Thanksgiving Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5C9A1C79118D4656A5F2BF99A15F4BE6@Mike2009PC> Tell me about an event that lifted your life. Without being humble, what was it about you that made it so lasting. Mike PS Thanks for asking - the only thing better than a good answer is a great question. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:10 AM Subject: [Ailist] Request for best Appreciative Inquiry Thanksgiving Question > Hi Everyone: > > The New York AI Group is gathering on Monday and focusing on the spirit of > Thanksgiving as a way of moving into the holiday season and thought all > could benefit from the collective sharing of these questions. So I > thought I > would put it out to the list "What is your best Thanksgiving AI > Question?" I will collect them all and then post the collective list. > > Here is one to get us started.... > > "Thinking back over all of your Thanksgivings, tell a story about your > best > Thanksgiving... one that felt most warm and meaningful. Who was there, > what made it such wonderful and what specifically made it so special?" > > The meeting is on Monday evening, so please share as soon as possible, but > will continue to collect until Thanksgiving morning. and will post for all > to share around the Thanksgiving table. ;-) > > For all of those who were in Nepal.... I hope that it was as an amazing an > experience as you had wished for. Looking forward to hearing reports. > > Warm regards, > Denise > > Denise Lalonde > Lalonde Consulting and Coaching > > 212-974-1438 > dlalondeny at aol.com > _______________________________________________ > The Appreciative Inquiry Discussion List is hosted by the David Eccles > School of Business at the University of Utah. Jack Brittain is the list > administrator. For subscription information, go to: > http://mailman.business.utah.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/ailist > From motivate at frontiernet.net Sun Nov 22 05:47:50 2009 From: motivate at frontiernet.net (Julie Caldwell) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:47:50 -0800 Subject: [Ailist] Peer Coaching Triads Message-ID: <95E0035E-8EFE-452D-BF7D-5A75CD5D04EC@frontiernet.net> Hello friends, I've been working with the Peer Coaching Triad model, a powerful method that connects your actions to your values. Peers coach each other, alternating roles as client, coach, and observer. Each person being able to support each other to fully develop all three roles, bringing balance to the practice. I will be using the Maestro Conference tool, to break folks into teams of three, as we move from one room, into small groups to explore this amazing experiential process. Please consider joining our next call-in session on December 3, 2010 from 3-4:30 PDT. It's free. And, you can read more about Peer Coaching Triads and register for the call here: http://www.emergingfuturesyouth.net/peertriadcoaching.htm Cheers, Julie Julie Caldwell Emerging Futures Youth Network www.emergingfuturesyouth.net 775 753 8414 "Doing Together What We Can Not Do Alone" From stephanie at brainhygiene.com Mon Nov 23 10:31:30 2009 From: stephanie at brainhygiene.com (Stephanie) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:31:30 -0700 Subject: [Ailist] Upcoming international conference on contemplative practices in law and conflict resolution Message-ID: <9D56189E-F95E-4EA7-9998-FF0AECFC6844@brainhygiene.com> http://westallen.typepad.com/idealawg/2009/11/upcoming-conference-on-contemplative-practices-.html Best, Stephanie ???????????????????????????????????? Stephanie West Allen, JD http://www.brainsonpurpose.com http://www.idealawg.net Denver, CO USA From cwhitneysanchez at gmail.com Mon Nov 23 21:30:22 2009 From: cwhitneysanchez at gmail.com (Christine Whitney Sanchez) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:30:22 -0700 Subject: [Ailist] Promise USA - National Network of Citizen Conversations Message-ID: <1C7BEFCF-775E-480D-9546-BDE68C807751@gmail.com> Dear AI Friends, I'm excited to announce that several of your AI/Open Space/World Cafe friends are inviting Michelle Obama to engage the country in a national network of citizen conversations, using World Cafe and other dialogue methods such as Open Space Technology and Appreciative Inquiry. Please visit our new Promise USA blog and be sure to post your comments so that Michelle can see the groundswell of support. We invite you to become an individual supporter of Promise USA. And if you know of any organizations or communities that might want to offer official support, please let us know. You do not need to be a US citizen to share our passion. We welcome all your comments and questions! Warm wishes from the cooling desert, Christine Christine Whitney Sanchez Collaborative Wisdom & Strategy 480.759.0262 www.christinewhitneysanchez.com Skype: christinewhitneysanchez http://www.facebook.com/ChristineWhitneySanchez