[Ailist] PsyBlog: Do You Believe in Free Will?
Stephanie West Allen
stephanie at brainhygiene.com
Sat Jan 24 07:57:41 MST 2009
I agree with you, Ken. And would love to see your paper. Here is more
re that last piece of research I sent along yesterday:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v457/n7228/abs/nature07664.html
Stephanie
On Jan 24, 2009, at 6:58 AM, kgergen1 wrote:
> I, for one, am very pleased that the brain is finally coming under
> scrutiny as "the" explanation of human behavior. There has been so
> much popularization of brain studies, entirely misleading in most
> cases, and as this view becomes dominant, so is the significance of
> human meaning, and our capacities to shape our future through
> relationship, diminished. I am just completing a draft of a paper
> that argues for our viewing the brain not as a determinant of our
> actions, but as a carrier of cultural meaning...not our master, but
> our servant. If anyone would like a copy, let me know...Ken
>
> On Jan 23, 2009, at 10:43 PM, Stephanie West Allen wrote:
>
>> The way we see the brain seems to be getting some shocks to it
>> recently. A couple of clues . . .
>>
>> Another shock for brain imaging research - the signal isn't always
>> linked to neuronal activity
>>
>> http://bps-research-digest.blogspot.com/2009/01/another-shock-for-
>> brain-imaging.html
>>
>> Stephanie
>>
>> On Jan 23, 2009, at 8:35 PM, kgergen1 wrote:
>>
>>> From a constructionist standpoint, you can also see that all
>>> forms of opposition are what you might call rhetorical or
>>> literary devices. The rhetoric of opposites doesn't reflect the
>>> world so much as create what we take to be the world. Thus, we
>>> are free to jettison the traditional determinism/voluntarism
>>> opposition, and to ask if there are other, more useful (given our
>>> values) ways to construct the brain, and what we take to be free
>>> choice. Whether the construction of a "higher level" serves this
>>> purpose seems an open question. Ken
>>>
>>> On Jan 23, 2009, at 7:21 PM, Stephanie West Allen wrote:
>>>
>>>> If we are in our reflective mind, we have free will. If we are
>>>> in our reactive brain, we likely don't, except that most of us
>>>> can choose to move into the reflective mind. The free will/free
>>>> won't debate as seen through the neuroscience lens is laid out
>>>> quite well in THE MIND AND THE BRAIN by Schwartz and Begley. As
>>>> you probably know this is a topic of much disagreement among the
>>>> neuroscientists.
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like a good book, Bruce.
>>>>
>>>> Stephanie
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 23, 2009, at 4:39 PM, Bruce Elkin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.spring.org.uk/2009/01/do-you-believe-in-free-will.php
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting article, Stephanie. I like the “compatabilism”
>>>>> approach, toward the end.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the underlying question poses a false dichotomy, what EF
>>>>> Schumacher called a “divergent challenge.”
>>>>> The more you frame the question and try to solve it, the more
>>>>> the “solutions” diverge from each other. Ultimately you end up
>>>>> with polar opposites, such as free will vs. determinism.
>>>>>
>>>>> Schumacher said that you have to transcend the question by
>>>>> going to a higher level value. He gave the example of the
>>>>> French revolutionary slogan, “Liberté, Egalité, et Fraternité”
>>>>> as an example. If you have unlimited freedom, society won’t be
>>>>> very equal. To get it completely equal, you have to regulate
>>>>> freedom too much. So the French went to the higher order value
>>>>> of compassion (brotherlineness/ fraternite), to help reconcile
>>>>> the dichotomy between freedom and equality.
>>>>>
>>>>> In my new (soon to be finished) ebook Staying Up In Down Times:
>>>>> Resilience, Results, and Rewards, I discuss this issue and
>>>>> Schumacher’s approach to it. In it, I say:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Schumacher’s pairs of opposites “cease to be opposites,” he
>>>>>> says, “at the higher level, the really human level, where self-
>>>>>> awareness plays its proper role.” At the level of the whole
>>>>>> person, higher, more senior forces such as love, compassion,
>>>>>> truth, understanding, and creativity enable us to embrace and
>>>>>> transcend these polar opposites.
>>>>>
>>>>> As usual, I’m trying to make a case for a shift from a
>>>>> predominantly “problem” focused approach to the higher-level
>>>>> “creating” approach (which I suggest is very compatible with
>>>>> the AI approach). I add:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Creating is more powerful—and simpler—than problem solving
>>>>>> because it mobilizes such forces as caring, and love. Working
>>>>>> within creative tension, we can transcend problems, and create
>>>>>> what truly matters to us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Urge to Create
>>>>>> The great psychologist Carl Jung recognized the wisdom in
>>>>>> transcending divergent challenges when he said that life’s
>>>>>> messy problems are not solved, only outgrown. As we saw
>>>>>> earlier, they fade away when confronted with a new and
>>>>>> stronger life urge such as the urge to create.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Creating is driven by the power of love—the desire to bring an
>>>>>> envisioned result into being. It is rooted in the truth the
>>>>>> current state of the result. It expresses our creative spirit
>>>>>> through choices and action. It is the place, where the hands,
>>>>>> the head, and the heart come together.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, to come back to the free will vs. determinism dichotomy, I
>>>>> think it, too, can be transcended by creating.
>>>>> Our choices are not merely determined, only partially. Much
>>>>> choice is freely chosen, in support of higher order values and
>>>>> visions. It’s not so much a “both/and” balance, but more a
>>>>> hierarchy of choice in which we acknowledge the degree to which
>>>>> our past and our biology determine us, and we transcend that
>>>>> determinism through higher order choices and actions in support
>>>>> of what we want to create.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, unless we understand and master the “creating”
>>>>> approach and it’s structure, we’re doomed (determined) to flail
>>>>> away at things with our problem solving hammers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>> Bruce
>>>>> ******************************************************************
>>>>> ***
>>>>> BRUCE ELKIN: Helping You Create What Matters Most!
>>>>> 20+ Years - Clients on 6 Continents - Author of 3 Books &
>>>>> The Forthcoming Simplicity, Success & Sustainability
>>>>>
>>>>> Tell me, what will you do
>>>>> with your one wild and precious life?
>>>>> - Mary Oliver
>>>>> Get My Fr.ee e-Newsletter at
>>>>> http://www.bruceelkin.com/newsletter.html
>>>>> Phone: 250.388.7210 Web: http://www.BruceElkin.com
>>>>> Blog: http://createwhatmattersmost.blogspot.com
>>>>> ******************************************************************
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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>> is the list administrator. For subscription information, go to:
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