resolving vMeme clashes ... RE: [Ailist] TED

[Helen6451 at aol.com]

Kevin 
 
I am struggling hard to come from curiosity in response to your description  
of stuck countries and civilized nations.  And I remind myself of the quote  
from a couple of days ago on this list:  "I find that I am intolerant of  
people who are intolerant."
 
I think that spotting stuck countries and civilized nations depends on your  
point of view within your own country about all the things you have just  
listed.  So I would not agree with you that they are easy to spot.  
 
In every place there are ideas that have great power for good and provide  
generative inspiration.  And in every place, there are actions that support  the 
downtrodden and those in need and stand up for human rights.
 
AND in every place you can also find ideas and actions that we wish were  
different.
 
Many times the difference depends on where you are standing--as part of or  
apart from the culture being "judged".  So I am not so quick to say that  the 
differences are easy to spot.
 
I believe that cross cultural exchanges based on these powerful and  
generative experiences and ideas and values and wishes have the power to  inspire, 
enspirit and connect people who hold divergent views about many  things, to 
cooperate about things where they hold convergent values and seek the  harmony that 
creates a container for these initiatives to flourish.  Many  of us on this 
list have seen this happen in places all over the world, and in  our own back 
yards.
 
For my own part, I have lost some of my  hope that this can get done  on the 
scale of nations, and believe that it probably works more effectively on  the 
scale of real, ordinary people including all stages along the Spiral.   
Leaders often set the stereotypes for countries and nations, and act as  if their 
own values and ideas  were those of everyone in their  country.  And those on 
the receiving end of actions inspired in that way  often project onto the people 
of those countries just the values and ideas of  those leaders.
 
But not always:  I had the privilege to be in Barcelona as our country  was 
preparing to invade Iraq, and I saw demonstrations of hundreds of thousands  of 
people every day against the War.  Bed sheets with "NO WAR!" in English  and 
Spanish and Catalan hung from window, meetings planned for weeks were  
cancelled or delayed because everyone was out in the streets campaigning and  
demonstrating against the United States government's actions.
 
AND they could distinguish between the US government and those of us  
Americans who were there to work with them on our projects.  They did not  treat us 
as if we were the ones declaring war...
 
I will stop now, because I seem to have gone a bit off track.  And at  one 
level, I wish it were as easy as you describe to tell these groups apart and  to 
decide which ideas a re the great ones...  And at another level, I  
appreciate and feel grateful for the differences that make this such an  interesting 
and rich world to live in.
 
Helen  


In a message dated 3/14/2008 11:17:41 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
kervick at comcast.net writes:

The  stuck countries are those that are mired in human rights violations, 
civil  war, religious and ethnic intolerance, authoritarianism, health crises 
 
including AIDS, corruption, abuse of women and minorities, and economic  
despair.  They are easy to spot.

Powerful countries are  civilized nations that have earned a place at the 
leadership table by  virtue of their  track record of economic success and 
societal  well-being.  They are also easy to spot.

Who decides?   Enlightened peoples that care for the  planet.






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